[April 12] Initial Development Manifesto Feedback

to ten of swords

the current loot system is what keeps me from playing in random parties i solo this game purely cuz no one i know wants to play this game. i would like to party but i would be starved for items i get lag spikes for every drop and boss that apears in my screen as it is i don't have the ability to just walk over at w/e drops for me or not.

which brings me to the point of desync

i would like to see how udp works out for this game.

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

Disagree to the n’th degree – FFA loot is why people bonded and made guilds in D2 – in D3 nobody even needs any friends. I will agree with you on the rest of it, but if you look closely I think you will find that many of those negative elements were a caused by balanced that resulted from instanced looting. (Itemization, loot quantity etc.)

Ever played WoW? Guild drama was almost always a consequence of loot distribution, even with 3rd party systems which attempted to make the system fair (DKP, etc.). FFA loot is TERRIBLE design; it brings out the worst in people and will quickly turn your gaming session into 'just another day at the office'. If strong emotions are what you're after, group looting is a can of worms.

As to your other points, I disagree that there is no reward without risk. Some players, myself included, simply enjoy the mechanical actions of overcoming a certain challenge (in games with complex mechanics, which sadly excludes PoE), just like playing a friendly game of tennis with your better half. Granted, playing in the hardcore league greatly amplifies that joy, but players have a choice as to whether or not they want that risk (ie. the default league). And while finding great loot is more exciting if you nab it before everyone else, players currently do NOT have any choice but compete with other players. Should the default league be done away with because I personally think hardcore is more exciting?

Player competition should be relegated to the realm of *gasp* PvP combat. PvM should encourage a spirit of cooperation and camaraderie.

As someone that supports the option for a more lenient looting system, I would be totally okay with FFA/short timer modes having increased IIQ/IIR. More risk, more reward and all that.

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ShogunGunshow wrote:

As someone that supports the option for a more lenient looting system, I would be totally okay with FFA/short timer modes having increased IIQ/IIR. More risk, more reward and all that.

You mean more friends, more rewards; people would game this system by... actually cooperating with each other. I know this sounds strange, but that IIQ/IIR bonus would essentially be a bribe, and people are more willing to act against their natures when they're bribed to do so.

In over one year of beta testing:

Everytime I take a break from this game I have the same reason: Desync.
Everytime I come back to the game: Desync is just WORSE.

This is my 2 cents.

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artemis42 wrote:

Player competition should be relegated to the realm of *gasp* PvP combat. PvM should encourage a spirit of cooperation and camaraderie.

Exactly. I don't like FFA, I like D3 loot allocation and play PoE exclusively solo or with friend (we just developed "own" allocation of loot and have trust to do not "steal" each other). There are tons of better entertainment in this game than psychopathic need to steal something what dropped somebody else...

1. Add a way for melee attacks to get endurance charges on kill or on hit, without using a gem slot or too many passives.

2. A big aspect is the damage efficiency of melee. How do you beat the efficiency of chain/gmp? You would have to invest in increased AOES nodes as well as the AOE gem to even come close, this is a problem. Melee builds are never very node efficient, this game is all about efficiency.

3. If ranged characters are going to have high damage efficiency, than why can't melee be super tanky and take more risks? (refer to #1)

4. Shields are the best defensive option by far. This means any melee two hand build is at a MASSIVE disadvantage and the damage increase is very marginal. Especially when you consider how attack speed modifiers on gear/nodes are based off your weapons attack speed. More often than not good one hander weapons out DPS's a good two hander.... why is that? Perhaps having a way to keep endurance charges up while using a two hander+melee attack would be a decent change. Lower attack speed also reduces movement/survivability.

5. Enduring cry is tedious and based off your cast speed??? why... Warlords mark is awful and not an option in parties.

The top players are smart and have invested a great deal of time into learning the mechanics of this game. Until melee builds become more attractive in terms of dmg efficiency/node efficiency and overall defence you will not seem them playing melee characters in a serious manner.

Ultimately I think the amount nodes required to successfully stay alive in HC is very high. EK marauder for example is almost purely defensive nodes. When you compare that build to the avg melee build, you realize that you would need the same amount of nodes to have equal defences. Leaving you with no nodes to invest in dmg. The problem isn't that melee builds can't be defensive, it's that they can't balance both defence and offence nearly as well as ranged builds.

A unique that help's keep endurance charges up when melee would help a lot. Even if mele was immune to physical chaos and elemental would still be a huge problem. Also adding a few more passive points to the game wouldn't hurt, five or so. I feel most builds I create don't become completely flushed out until around lvl 85+. Often there are still 10+ nodes I would like to have gotten. Clearly anything that makes the game easier should be approached very cautiously and slowly, gl.

Had another idea. How about a keystone that greatly buffs melee but disables the ability to use ranged/projectile attacks? Use just one node and no gems slots.

So which of the 3 versions did Diablo 2 use? Cause I never once in tens of thousands of hours of gameplay in that game experience anything remotely similar to desync in PoE.

Your argument is that it means people can cheat. But if that option is the only one that will remove desync completely why not do it and focus your efforts on detecting and preventing cheating instead.

The only thing keeping this game from grabbing the same hold on me that Diablo 2 did (and in fact still does) for more than a decade is the networking code, but tbh the desync post gave me the feeling you've already given up on the issue, "it'll always be there all we can do is make it less apparent" kind of. Which really makes me lose interest even more than I have the last couple of months. In fact I've spent more hours in Diablo 2 than in PoE the last 2 months. *sadface*

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Rather than nerfing powerful ranged builds to reduce the disparity, we will make sure that melee builds can be built to be powerful enough to compete. It will be very interesting looking at the data we're gathering about the impact of Multistrike and Melee Splash.

The physical-elemental disparity will be addressed. There will probably be an on-critical effect introduced for physical damage (which may be as simple as a guaranteed stun, but the options are still being considered).

Not nerf ranged, buff close combat- agree. But what about Resolute Technique builds? They donot crit. Where will be buff for them?

What about Mele Demage on Full life support? Any changes are planned?