[April 12] Initial Development Manifesto Feedback
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From ninjas can party with other ninjas to opposite where carebears can share / play nice with loot. Desync addressed. Physical dmg getting the loving it needed. Tweak to maps and their drops.
Awesome stuff. Id like to see a lesser used curse get physical dmg, or perhaps create a new curse to buff melee physical damage. Also why isn't there an armor penetration like the elemental penetrations? I think the armor system as a whole needs to be looked at and onced over again. Its needed to a certain point and then a complete waste after. Also physical damage from melee could be in better place afterwords. |
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Would just like to post some quick feedback: I play solo basically all the time, unless I need a group to kill a boss. However, I have tried group play just to see how much better the loot is; and I must say that solo loot needs a definite upgrade as it is sorely lackikng in drop rarity and also the amount of currency that drops seems to drop off in solo play around cruel a3
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"Rather than nerfing powerful ranged builds to reduce the disparity, we will make sure that melee builds can be built to be powerful enough to compete"
Do you also plan to scale back the superiority of melee builds in the early part of the game? melee builds with their high armor, health, and regen options are significantly better up to about level 20-25. That's the trade off of caster builds. Lots of early deaths. +health on hit on everything melee, plus +health on hit support gem etc are there as well. Otherwise the new OP Build just becomes melee-centric. An "automatic" stun seems unreasonable, althought I like the concept of melee crit effects. Sure a cold build has a very good chance to freeze, however, it is not automatic, and only if you have spent many passives in cold. Unless it's something like +50% chance to stun but no extra damage from criticals type passive. I only say this because, if you look at most of the HC races, it's all melee classes that do well. So, if you buff the high end, you have to address the low end advantages It's just a flesh wound!
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Life on kill and life on hit work whether your ranged or melee, it's just that it's easier to get them early with a melee build, but if you get them for a ranged character the extra mitigation that comes from the extra ranged mitigation makes them several times as powerful, providing you use a decent physical damage bow.
The problem melee has is that it doesn't have much passive damage mitigation, and doesn't do enough damage to get through shields and kill hordes of enemies without taking tons of damage itself. Regaining life on kill helps a bit, but it's like evasion . . . either your draining enough health from kills/hits to be worthwhile or your dead. So X% of physical damage has to be pretty high, or you have to kill pretty fast. Neither of which is true at higher levels where really decent purely physical damage is hard to come by and enemies can take a few (or more) hits to kill. First thing is you need to revamp armor so that small fast hits actually do some damage to the enemy so that those "on hit" skills actually mean something. I don't care how often I hit and get healed by fast low damage attacks if they don't do ANYTHING to the enemy! I'm still sitting there taking damage in what is at best an endless battle. Perhaps for the purpose of armor an "attack" should consist of however much damage you did in X seconds, and certain melee nodes could effect that, allowing you to effectively stack more and more "hits" within a single "attack". That alone would help a lot. Another thing that would both help and hurt to some extent would be to add a range and melee modifiers to armor. If you make it so that if your using melee weapons, and are closer to an enemy you get better armor penetration that would make a huge difference too. A bastard sword swung from an inch away should have more of a chance to get through armor than the equivalent arrow fired from half a screen away. Finally perhaps we could buff block, dodge, and other passive, but secondary, forms of defense, for those standing within melee range of an enemy. Last edited by JohnChance#7367 on Apr 15, 2013, 9:48:17 PM
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" doing a witch CI dual wielder build is hard mate the core of that build (if you use bloodrage) is 82 points.. since you need stuff like 5 keystones to make that work look up Krip's sweep build on youtube its actually quite insane how he does it i think you can learn a lot from that here is a cookie dual witch that i made up on the fly |
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" Please define "ranged characters". I currently play as a Firestorm Templar, and while Firestorm is a ranged ability, it can't be used without some form of meat shield since it requires targets to stay still. Usually people have minions to do this, but I dislike the concept of minions, so I decided to make the character tanky enough to gather all monsters around himself and AoE them with Firestorm. To this end, my character is basically a melee character, even though I use ranged skill. If you implement some sort of system where you need to be using a melee skill to get the benefits, this would outright kill my build and severely hamper the build diversity. How can this be fixed then? I don't have a straight answer obviously, but if we look at the skills currently in game, there's one particularly good example: Enduring Cry. As most melee characters know, this skill is absolutely essential to be able to tank high level monsters. Since it also "taunts" monsters, it discourages ranged usage who want minions/totems/other party members to tank for them. Skill similar to this could solve the problem. Call it Vortex, for example. The skill would pull all nearby monsters at your feet and increase the defenses of the caster for a short while. Last edited by Alhoon#2008 on Apr 15, 2013, 11:07:11 PM
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" I'm going to throw out a suggestion that may seem absurd at first, but implemented correctly... The solution to desynch might be MORE desynch. Your post (thanks for all the info btw, it is appreciated) illuminated very clearly the choices between keeping the game fluid, protecting against client side cheating and the resultant Out of Synchronization. I am sure your team is all too aware of how much potential harm desynch can bring to a character, with very little recourse available to the player. Would it be possible to rectify the one-sidedness of desynch by causing a similar amount of uncertainty on the server side attack routines? If the player's partial inability to tell where monsters were and successfully attack them (or avoid being attacked by them) was balanced by intentionally adding the same uncertainty to the monsters' attacks then the player wouldn't get blind sided every time desynch occured. If implemented carefully, the monster might be out of position on the player's screen, but instead of getting a guaranteed hit, it might miss the player because the server's attack routine was slightly off. The player might also get in an unintentional "cheap shot" when the server's routine for running the monster failed to properly note the player's position and allowed an unsuspected attack to occur. This wouldn't stop surprise deaths or rubber banding, but it would give the player a better chance of survival without giving any unfair advantages. If you think about Desynch as a technological fog of war, it makes sense that the fog should apply to both sides of the battle. In any case, thank you for making such a great game. Please have your team take a breather and relax occasionally. We don't need everything fixed right away, and letting the creative juices simmer a bit in the subconscious while you unwind will only make your ideas stronger. Rest and sleep can even help unravel some problems the conscious mind would take forever to solve - it's like having free respec points for your brain to try out different builds while you are asleep. "The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910 Last edited by DalaiLama#6738 on Apr 15, 2013, 11:11:19 PM
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" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... I love it. The blind fighting the blind. Last edited by Akenmaat#0787 on Apr 15, 2013, 11:58:18 PM
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When the level reaches the Lv66
I began to feel bored There have to fight not want to play because the higher-level map The upgrade also become difficult Character development began to shut down Fun gradually disappear I started to play while dozing Finally, I'm getting less play this game Weekly update is a happy thing But each new skill people think is not practical, so frustrating If you want new skills if some very practical skills? When a person reach level 66 bored Lasting Appeal late game To be the designer's creativity to improve it Last edited by play2013#2819 on Apr 16, 2013, 12:24:58 AM
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Got myself my first ever level 69 map today, a tunnel map. I was so happy when I came across the first ever boss that had the rare wealth mod! really excited because I have seen screenshots of how much these guys can drop. Unfortunately the boss got knocked into a wall and I was unable to f**king kill him!
Then later in the map I got desync and suddenly a mob of skeletons teleported around me and I died. I didn't even get to the unique boss for the map. Sad stuff really. I hope GGG add some sanity checks to monsters so when they are stuck in walls, they can teleport out. This is the kind of popping I don't mind. |
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