Reforge keep prefix .. KEEP PREFIX!

as long as the wording stays clear and it doesnt get to long,i wouldnt mind an improvement that makes the open prefix/suffix situation more clear

there is a lot of stuff that really should be ingame
there is always the option to add a "hide" filter in gamesettings

Why some people are that much bitter?

Even if you think that "keep prefixes" are that clear, which I personally disagree, is not that hard to understand that it is not that clear for everyone. If it was, there were not be so many people that made the same "mistake" as op.

Being said that, I understand you, op. it really sucks. I lost a lot of good currency and itens for lack of knowledge or lack of clear instructions. It happens and it sucks, but you will get over.

cheers.

P.S: A think the question is, why not try to make thinks more clear, GGG? It is quite possible and will appease new players (and some old too).

"

TrunksD2 wrote:

Why some people are that much bitter?

Even if you think that "keep prefixes" are that clear, which I personally disagree, is not that hard to understand that it is not that clear for everyone. If it was, there were not be so many people that made the same "mistake" as op.

I think you missunderstand. To me personally the people that are bitter here, are the one's that failed to read, since they're the one that did a mistake, on a premise that the game didn't provide and caused a logical leap (Believing an empty prefix / suffix is something that can be "kept" and not added upon to)

I agree on the part that the game could be a lot better with clarity issues. I would just hate to see the game becoming unnecessarily bloated with walls of texts,

A compromise here between players like me, who just, hate lots and lots and lots of reading in a game that I just want to mindlessly play trough (for the most part) and the one's that are unsure if what they are reading is exactly what it says it does, I suppose would be having a "hold-alt" function on them, similiar how you can hold alt on items and have their mods be explained more if necessary.

Here's how it would look like

Normally (Without holding alt): "Reforge a rare item, keeping all prefixes"

While holding alt: "Reforge a rare item, keeping all prefixes"
(Only keeps existing prefixes and has the potential to roll
onto empty affix slots. This has the same effect as locking
your current prefixe and rolling them with a chaos orb)

Just my two cents

"

Rakushi wrote:

"

TrunksD2 wrote:

Why some people are that much bitter?

Even if you think that "keep prefixes" are that clear, which I personally disagree, is not that hard to understand that it is not that clear for everyone. If it was, there were not be so many people that made the same "mistake" as op.

I think you missunderstand. To me personally the people that are bitter here, are the one's that failed to read, since they're the one that did a mistake, on a premise that the game didn't provide and caused a logical leap (Believing an empty prefix / suffix is something that can be "kept" and not added upon to)

I agree on the part that the game could be a lot better with clarity issues. I would just hate to see the game becoming unnecessarily bloated with walls of texts,

A compromise here between players like me, who just, hate lots and lots and lots of reading in a game that I just want to mindlessly play trough (for the most part) and the one's that are unsure if what they are reading is exactly what it says it does, I suppose would be having a "hold-alt" function on them, similiar how you can hold alt on items and have their mods be explained more if necessary.

Here's how it would look like

Normally (Without holding alt): "Reforge a rare item, keeping all prefixes"

While holding alt: "Reforge a rare item, keeping all prefixes"
(Only keeps existing prefixes and has the potential to roll
onto empty affix slots. This has the same effect as locking
your current prefixe and rolling them with a chaos orb)

Just my two cents

Look, I am calling bitter here one who lacks capacity of being empathetic. Saying thinks like "it is cristal clear already" is totally unnecessary and maybe pretentious.

As I said, if it was "cristal clear", there were not be so many people doing the same "mistake".

The one who complains about the text is just kind of frustrated. Most of people have being there once, right? And sometimes people lost some itens that they really put effort to achieve. So yeah, I can feel their frustration.

And ok, a lot of text could be annoying, although as you suggest they could keep using alt to hide/show it and it is a work around. But a single word would be that annoying? Look the difference:

Reforge a rare item, keeping all EXISTING prefixes

I would argue that now it is "cristal clear".

There are other places where a little more effort could be put in order to make things more clear. On top of my mind I remember a discussion here about "you hits always ignite" x "chance to avoid ailments". One said, "always is always" but the game disagrees. Nothing have changed since then.

I guess this is my point.


P.S: I said "Existing" prefixes, but could be "Allocated" prefixes, or some like that.

"

Simple2012 wrote:

So the harvest craft "Reforge a rare item, keeping all prefixes" should be clarified. It doesn't keep all prefixes as they are, it keeps all ALLOCATED prefixes as they are.

As a very straight forward person I am, I see an unallocated prefix as a prefix.
So not thinking deeper, I crafted and bricked my 20 ex boots.

Seriously, this game is HORRIBLE for new players. Everything in this game has to be learnt by suffering, you can't just read the descriptions and understand it that way. You really have to test it the hard way to find out how things works.

This seems totally reasonable. You're far from alone here. I ruined a very good item at one point by missing this very thing. The text should probably read:
"Reforge a rare item, keeping all prefixes and potentially reforging any empty prefixes"

Keeping all prefixes to me, means: keeping all prefixes as they are EVEN IF IT IS AN EMPTY PREFIX, but that isn't how the craft works of course. Not to mention, this craft doesn't do anything for several of the crafting methods (example: essences). So no, it's not intuitive at all unless you have that tribal knowledge.

Adding a small text change like this can mean one less bad experience that many, many people might go through.

This is valid feedback and the people replying shitting on you for your feedback are absolutely gatekeeping. It's fine to disagree, but it is not okay to engage in victim blaming here.

To all the people saying "It's perfectly clear" or "Your assumption is the problem here," saying those sorts of things is extremely reductive in this situation and also damn near self-contradicting.

To 'clarify' what I mean in both cases:

It's "reductive" because you're taking the issue of clarity and beginner-level game accessibility and reducing it to user error alone. When the entire POINT of clarity in design is to help eliminate user error potential in the first place.

It's "self-contradicting" because I think we'd agree that clarity here means lacking ambiguity. That means that whatever is stated, is interpreted for exactly whatever it is trying to convey, REGARDLESS of WHO exactly is interpreting it. If it were "perfectly clear," this man wouldn't be posting here and others would never agree.

So, while it may be "perfectly clear" to you and other people, so long as someone out there is able to misinterpret it, it's not necessarily clear.

I'd say that exactly HOW clear something is, should be a measure of how many people see it as "perfectly clear" versus how many do not.

Clarity is not a binary property. It's a gradient and some things can be MORE clear than others. More so, somethings can be more clear to specific GROUPS of people than others as well.

Without going too much further down this road, it's just important to remember that running around saying that a sign that says: "Caution Moose Crossing" is perfectly clear is silly when you consider there may be plenty of people who have no idea what a Moose is or why it crossing is a hazard. This is why most important signs have visual diagrams for added clarity.

**NOTE**
Unrelated, but I think the wording does accurately describe what the craft does in a concise manner. (But that doesn't make it perfectly clear.)
And additionally I believe it's this man's fault for attempting a craft that is very expensive, (relative to his income), without at least looking in to how things work or testing it out.
While I do think this game's reliance on third party tools is a bit over the top, when you're entering late game stages of almost any game where you can end up wasting expensive or rare resources you've acquired and invested time into, I feel like it's smart to read up just a bit before you commit to anything.

All that said, I still see no harm in adding a tool-tip on hover or similar for extra interaction details or "gotcha's" to watch out for that many players may mistake something for.

You're not the first person to fall for it, and you won't be the last.

The craft does exactly what it says it does, but the problem is it's understood differently by different people. Some people assume that prefixes means the 3 prefix slots instead of actual prefixes. Others assume that an empty prefix slot counts as a prefix.

The first one I can definitely see people falling for, it's kind of misleading. If enough people fall for it, there should be possibly some better wording for it. But I can't see anyone falling for the second assumption because that doesn't make any sense at all.

EDIT:

"

Simple2012 wrote:

As a very straight forward person I am, I see an unallocated prefix as a prefix.

Ok nevermind, I thought people wouldn't think an empty prefix counts as a prefix, but some people apparently do. I just want to show an example of why I believe thinking this way doesn't make sense.



If I asked you how many prefixes this axe has, would you say 2 or 3?

"

Revnaut wrote:

You're not the first person to fall for it, and you won't be the last.

The craft does exactly what it says it does, but the problem is it's understood differently by different people. Some people assume that prefixes means the 3 prefix slots instead of actual prefixes. Others assume that an empty prefix slot counts as a prefix.

The first one I can definitely see people falling for, it's kind of misleading. If enough people fall for it, there should be possibly some better wording for it. But I can't see anyone falling for the second assumption because that doesn't make any sense at all.

EDIT:

"

Simple2012 wrote:

As a very straight forward person I am, I see an unallocated prefix as a prefix.

Ok nevermind, I thought people wouldn't think an empty prefix counts as a prefix, but some people apparently do. I just want to show an example of why I believe thinking this way doesn't make sense.



If I asked you how many prefixes this axe has, would you say 2 or 3?

as soon as you know what it does the description is 100% clear

but that is exactly the problem
you kinda instantly understand after you made a mistake,there is no reason for it to be that way when something as simple as adding a addition line like "may add a preffix,if there is an open preffix slot"

"

Simple2012 wrote:

1)It sounds to me you're just bitter you did the mistake so you want everyone else to suffer the same way.

2)This game is already horrible for beginners in all sort of aspects such as lack of combat log etc. I have about 1 300 hours in the game and I'm still a beginner. Never ever have had a game which I learn even remotely as slow as this.
3)And yes of course use the third-party websites like CraftOfExile etc even though I shouldn't. Why not? Because using third party services not only puts you at risk, it also proves the game is lacking of fundamental things that should already be built into the game.

1)Ironically, no. The only item i ever bricked something was with a non-life to life, when my item had 2 life prefixes, 1 non-life prefix and 0 suffixes, it removed the 1 non-life prefix and added 1 life suffix.

Also, to clarify why to me it feels like a stupid assumption that "Prefixes cannot be changed" isn't clear. If you have an item with literally only "Prefixes cannot be changed" craft: 1) you can use an Orb of Augmentation on it and it'll add a prefix, 2) you can use non-life aug life where there's only prefix life modifiers and it'll add a life prefix, 3) if it's a rare item, you can chaos it and it'll chaos normally, 4) you can test all that on CraftOfExile with no charge. Further more, if you have a FULL item, along with prefix and suffix cannot be changed, chaos orb will only change the name of the item and add nothing, as nothing can be changed NOR added, and the only way to modify the item is to remove crafted mods.

Literally all mechanics in the game that involve "PCBC" let them add prefixes and THEN not let them be altered. If it was "Cannot add nor change prefixes", your prerogative would be correct. However, PBCB cannot affect something that does not exist in the item as all interactions prove so.

An example, "This phrase can't change". That phrase can't indeed be changed, but it doesn't mean i can't add more phrases after it. "This phrase can't change and i can't write more phrases afterwards" however...

2)I agree. I've been advocating that help panel is useless for YEARS. I fucking hate using third party shit, websites, what ever that isn't in the game, but devs made it clear it won't ever change, so it's useless to swim against the tide.

3)At risk of what? CraftOfExile is a website that doesn't require an account to function. As far as i know, it's a site maintained by people with vastly superior knowledge than even the devs about crafting to make such a tool that is 99,9% precise and the site itself is safer and more accurate than the wiki itself.

As for third-party executables, you don't need them and they're purely for convenience sake. I sell and trade without any of that shit.

Since discussing it, filters should also be an in-game customizable feature, but here we are.

Again, yes, PoE lacks fundamentals that should be inside the game, but it won't happen because Chris himself doesn't want to "casualize" the game as he said it countless times.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anything, I'm bitter that they force players to use wiki, CoE, PoB and all that shit so we can barely understand the game.

"

Rakushi wrote:

I agree on the part that the game could be a lot better with clarity issues. I would just hate to see the game becoming unnecessarily bloated with walls of texts

For some reason that don't apply to reading on third parties like craftofexile? I'm confused, what's the difference?

"

Rakushi wrote:

I suppose would be having a "hold-alt" function on them, similiar how you can hold alt on items and have their mods be explained more if necessary.

I agree, this is would be a great solution.

"

Revnaut wrote:

If I asked you how many prefixes this axe has, would you say 2 or 3?

I would say it have 2/3 prefixes.

I'll give you an example, if I were to implement the data structure of a simplified item, then this could be an example (although if it was real code I would do it differently but that's besides the point).

So if I were to say "Reforge keep prefix", I would reforge everything but the prefixes. In my brain when I see an item in PoE, I think it as a set of data with 3 prefixes and 3 suffixes. Maybe I'm damaged by my work, could be. But clearly I am not the only one being mislead by unclear descriptions.

So all I am asking for is clarification so others don't do the same mistake as I have done.

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

Also, to clarify why to me it feels like a stupid assumption that "Prefixes cannot be changed" isn't clear. If you have an item with literally only "Prefixes cannot be changed" craft: 1) you can use an Orb of Augmentation on it and it'll add a prefix, 2) you can use non-life aug life where there's only prefix life modifiers and it'll add a life prefix, 3) if it's a rare item, you can chaos it and it'll chaos normally

So let's setup a scenario.
You have an item with 2 prefixes
You craft "Prefixes cannot be changed"
You exalt slam the item
You now have 3 prefixes.
So will you still tell me the prefixes haven't changed?


Here's another question
If I give you a burger, a very delicious one and I tell you it's healthy.
Then I add poison.
Would you still eat it? I mean I haven't changed the properties right? I just added something.