GGG, it's time to revisit and revamp weapon types

in POE slow weapon translates to 'slow everything' as the animation is tied to attack speed and most of it happens BEFORE the hit, so you cannot ani-cancel

this alone makes slow weapons useless because in POE being slow == being dead

Slow is fine if its powerful we had slam meta for a reason and everyone fully exploiting such was using a Karui chopper which has a base speed of 1.05.

However maces have a really simple problem of having all their skills/flavour shared with staves which are numerically superior. They have to buff the damage, honestly considering that Axes get superior passives Maces should just hit the hardest anyway.

Tidebreaker is about all maces have going for them, don't have good uniques, anything "general" is better with axe/sword, anything specific is better with staff.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Slow is fine if its powerful we had slam meta for a reason and everyone fully exploiting such was using a Karui chopper which has a base speed of 1.05.

However maces have a really simple problem of having all their skills/flavour shared with staves which are numerically superior. They have to buff the damage, honestly considering that Axes get superior passives Maces should just hit the hardest anyway.

Tidebreaker is about all maces have going for them, don't have good uniques, anything "general" is better with axe/sword, anything specific is better with staff.

Tidebreaker's damage range is outdated. You have axes going for 900 to 1000 high damage rolls. You can't even compare it. Stun is dead, so even Tidebreaker is useless now.

2h maces should have the highest damage rolls, despite being the slowest.

I wasn't saying tidebreaker was a GG weapon its just a very solid unique that props up some of the problems and its better than the equivalent sword/axe uniques currently. Infact unless i'm forgetting something its the best 2h phys unique.

Even moreso if you are a stun build, you have to get to a 8-900 pdps mace before it actually competes and while that is certainly achievable you won't get it for low cost.

Agreed about the damage rolls though they should have the damage because they are the slowest and generally have worse passives.

Also stop with the stun is dead it isn't, its hard to pull off on HC its trivial in SC. If they make it any easier than it already is it'll get nerfed the league after when players "discover" how easy bosses are when they do jack shit 66% of the time.

they DO NOT 'do jack shit 66% of the time' ffs

ive made stun-centered builds in recent past. i used busted setup including legacy abyssus (215crit multi), 800pdps staff, close to 100% crit and almost 100% stun threshold reduction (effective ~80% due to non-linear formula) with all that 'stun duration/double whatever' junk. all on zHP build because getting all that is impossible on a balanced build (non-mace Stun Threshold reduction comes mostly from belt and clusters)

and that meant jack shit vs endgame bosses. some are outright stun immune, some have so much health even that damage (several mil phys damage per HIT) is not enough - because stun threshold is still coupled to boss HP (unlike ailment thresholds)
and if you eventually stun that endgame boss - it lasts for .1sec followed by 4seconds of stun immunity


freeze is both easier to apply, easier to abuse (prolif) and much, much easier to build for - you just stack damage, no secondary stats needed. in fact the same very build with one 'phys as extra cold' on amulet (replacing brutality) achieved what stun couldnt (on a f.. stun build!)


it is cool to stun T3 white map boss. but it is all stun is good for.

the only people who claim otherwise are people who never actually built for it. or have fond memories of stun pre threshold-butchery patch. right now it is complete junk of a mechanic

Sorry you are totally wrong

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ttqi1n/former_exile_shows_you_why_you_should_have_stun/

Just gonna leave that here I can't be bothered to fix my expedition guy to go and stun everything to prove a point.

Its hard as fuck to build around because its extremely OP when properly realised, if you made a character with legacy abyssus crit and couldn't stun Sirus etc you fucked something up.

Its trivial to stun everything with 20mil or less life, It takes a major jump in investment to do UE/Shaper/Sirus/Maven and they haven't changed anything with stun since the last time I played it.

Edit: feeling super petty about this so https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1465649347

you can't tell me that's a 0.1 second stun, and this character is scuffed AF hes missing about 70% threshold and god knows how much optimisation compared to what we can run now. I don't even know where you can put thread of hope anymore and he had a 5 pointer on :/

alt qual Boneshatter + Ashes? yep, 50% Threshold reduction right there. more than ENTIRE passive tree combined

any other setup?

because 'building for stun' is straightforward:
- build phys
- be lucky with rolls (Ryslata belt might help, but if you low roll.. lol)
- be lucky with 'double duration'
- get as much threshold reduction as you can. formula is linear till 75, then gets highly suppressed

- belt (Atziri's belt is fine, Ryslatha is better IF YOU FEEL LUCKY, low rolls result in .1s stuns. been there done that)

- there are two cluster notables: Battlefield Dominator and Heavy Hitter for 10%. Both can occur on 'two handed' clusters (or Megalomaniac) and one for 8% (crit multi/threshold) that appears on mediums. you can get 60% from large + 2 Megalomaniacs

- few passives there and there. total is 10% for generic and ~40% for maces



thats it. you dont try to make it into some science. you get big bong, get lucky with high-roll. binary question: beat the threshold or not? if you beat it BARELY, you get .1s stun and all that investment goes into the toilet

kosis/omni in Sim with extra life, extra ES (50% stun avoidance), gain endu charges etc - it is way different game than obsolete paperthin Hydra.. (not to mention that you might not stun at all next time because you low roll in precisely the wrong moment)

btw - freeze is much stronger than that and does not force you to use maces and a glitch-centered skill (Boneshatter + Mantra of flames is just stupid)

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sidtherat wrote:

kosis/omni in Sim with extra life, extra ES (50% stun avoidance), gain endu charges etc - it is way different game than obsolete paperthin Hydra.. (not to mention that you might not stun at all next time because you low roll in precisely the wrong moment)

Hydra has 28mil life and that character has 2 stacks of trauma, no frenzies, it cost about 5ex and i'm running behead the mobs not even <50% but lmao sure i'm the one that doesn't understand stun.

It isn't some big science but you clearly don't understand it I mean whats this shit about you only just roll you and you do 0.1 s stun, you know its binary right? You either stun or you don't you'll never get a 0.1 second stun ever, the shortest that character can do is a 3.8 like 5% of the time as he doesn't have 100% chance to double.

Freeze is stronger that isn't up for debate aside from you can't freeze bosses, but what do you expect it requires zero investment to freeze you get it for free.

Just admit you don't know how to build it and try again in the future instead of telling someone with obvious proof that it works fine that it doesn't. I could quadruple that guys DPS on SC you think you need ashes to stun? Lmao, nor is boneshatter the stun skill VGS is the best.

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sidtherat wrote:

it is cool to stun T3 white map boss. but it is all stun is good for.

You can either own this or not but i've said my piece players who want to play stun can take what they want from it.

There are so many melee weapon types but only one or few bow types, but bow types are so much easier and cheaper to play with.

Maybe improve melee or give us some new bow types?

Being the stun 0.1s or 3 seconds its still useless since bosses will have a 4 seconds immunity window and damage itself kts a joke. Couple that with poor survivability and your build is a have been