Please un-nerf Spell Totems

Nah you just don't like the answer your getting, its like players don't want to accept that soul mantle was OP

Selfcast shouldn't be drastically outperformed by proxy casting, if they left spell totem where it was and boosted all the spells by 50% it'd just be a totem league which AFAIK wasn't their goal.

I know you have a hard time accepting this but totems still outperform selfcast most of the time except for permanent uptime abilities or massive investment primarily because both of those don't actually have to deal with selfcasts real problems.

Heiros with the modern numbers still come out as 46% more and rain of splinters is a direct advantage to any totem build that can use it you really shouldn't list it as a negative its one of the strongest pieces of cheese available for totems.

I'm not against a spell totem buff either i'm just saying right now they perform fine, you might think they don't but that's because you haven't got the perspective of what to compare them against. If the spell totems version of a skill is bad chances are the regular version of that skill is bad hence not really a totem problem.

Players think superior mechanics should come for free though and that isn't right, strikes have to pay just to become usable totems only limitations are a small placement speed requirement and a shield.

You really need to read more. I acknowledged in.my original post that due to the buff to spell gems, totems would need a nerf to stop them becoming op. I went on to say unfortunately the multiple nerfs combined went too far, and I only asked for a partial reversion.

Please read.

Soul mantle op? That must be why spell totems were never more than 1% of the playerbase in recent times...

Your numbers are completely wrong, I've proven it, so have the very few totem streamers using pob. But I'm done trying to reason with you now, you don't play totems and have no idea what you are talking about. You can't say they are performing fine you don't have a spell totem character. If they were in a good spot there would be more than 200 per 100k players. If they were in a good spot the primary spell totem streamer wouldn't have given up on it this league declaring the build isn't worth pursuing anymore.

Good day.

You can't prove my numbers wrong because its simple mathematics lmao multiply the less multipliers by the number of totems.

Soul mantle was a cheap 7l chest with major bonus damage scaling and a 33-25% more multiplier by default and easy access to +2/+4 as a result. Most builds would kill for a body armour so OP but so easy to get its like fleshcrafter.

Most skills have next to no representation it doesn't mean they suck, almost nobody is using Hexblast but I one shot T16's with it the meta is boring and bullshit but it doesn't dictate what you can clear the game with and you'd have a much easier time with totems than melee or half the selfcast shit.

I just watched a guy blasting gauntlet with stormburst totems and it convinced me to slot it in as my league starter, good numbers good build.

What they should do, though, is also nerf holy flame and shockwave totem. I've been playing around with various totems in gauntlet and it isn't even funny how much stronger they are compared to spell totem. Sure, you don't really need the power that much at that point when playing vanilla, but if people start playing around with gems it feels kinda bad.

Not sure that the scaling damage penalty is really needed either, for the same reason, it could start with 40% and gaining more life is the biggest reason to want a higher gem level anyway.

Totems are so op that FP with about 700 ex investment PRE 3.17 they couldnt even do endgame content - not the legion one, not simulacrum 25+, not deli 100%.

The dodge, blind and flask nerf destroyed the totem build defenses and left it as a cast on death portal build. Even if going all out damage you max out at around 6 x 1.5 mill. Caveat is, you have totems that taunt and freeze and if you have room to maneuver and as long as you are not swarmed by too many rares at the same time you are likely to live.

That being said, the whole mapping phase of the build was and still is op. Its main power spike relies on cheapish uniques and makes for a very comfy mapper and bosser. It only requires heavy investment for juiced league mechanics in t14+. The main bosses are manageable white with core gear and some portals especially now that awakening level is not a thing.

So did it need as much of a nerf? I think not. Is true that it should not have been buffed with the skills tune up and it would have been fine if GGG had stopped at negating the buff as they themselves stated in the notes.

The current triple whammy is an insult and an attempt to force feed people playing self cast. Guess what, after they destroyed most cheap defenses in 3.16 the so called buff to self cast damage is already negated by people no longer running offensive auras and taking many more defense nodes. So most spell builds have few choices left -
1) Invest 100 ex, survive more than 2-3 hits from a white mob and deal less that 5 mill damage. Complain that maven outheals your damage, cap at t16 and main bosses
2) invest 100 ex, deal 10-12 mill, die often, cap at t16 and main bosses
3) combine exploits like divine shield and aurora with a proj stacking skill, forget about going standard and try to sell your equipment to gullible people. The kings way if you only care for league. Destroy everything and defend nerfs. Feel kinship with minion builds.
4) The stats , the staff and the amulet - see 3)

Well, now that i wrote it down, there seem to be enough options. Buts its the memories of better, pre nerf times that chafe. Archmage, brands, ignites, assassins... you know, FUN.

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IcedInferno007 wrote:

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Now they are pretty trash without serious investment, and even then they are still fairly poor, as can be seen from their lack of popularity on poe ninja, with an estimated 200 characters playing spell totems per 100,000.

Thanks.

Ok, this has to stop, the whole referring to Ninja to make any conclusion about build diversity/viability/strength... And where does it tell you 200 characters per 100,000? What ?

Poe ninja tells you what build people are playing at what level or depth+level.
That is all it does.

It does not tell you why people are playing their builds. What builds are viable, what builds are "strong".

If what you are saying is true than Toxic Rain would be "trash"

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as can be seen from their lack of popularity on poe ninja

And that would be completely wrong. I even built it this league you can go look and completed everything just fine (deli 30, feared, 60% elderslayer invite, maven, ect...) And no I didnt invest 100's of ex in it....

And according to ninja TR has less players than spell totem... Which I doubt since it only shows level 100 players now. Gets worse if you make it about depth, as it should, since spell totems in delve>TR

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IcedInferno007 wrote:

I do wish people with little to no experience of spell totems would stop commenting. I've played a totem build pretty much every league for the last 10 or more.

Spell totem support is now 40% less damage (not reduced, less). It is also 40% less cast speed. They deleted the threshold jewel which means you now need to run something to add more projectiles, the best thing is rain of splinters which is another 30% reduced damage. And they changed the ascendancy so to always summon 2 totems at once instead of 1, which feels awful, you need to run multi totem support, another 21% less damage. With the soul mantle nerf you now have 1 less totem. Your maths is way off and shows you do not play totems.

If spell totems were strong they'd have been meta, like EA ballistas were this league, they didn't suffer from these nerfs. They've never been meta, not in the time I've been playing anyway which is quite a few years.

They've always been a 1% type build, now they're much less than that, there is a reason. If they were strong they'd be popular, just like ballistas.

I dont go on righteous fire posts commenting about nerfs or buffs, because I've only ever used it once so I don't have the right or experience to. It would be good if those not familiar with totems did the same.

Wallach's freezing pulse totem build is my only level 100, huge fan.

I agree with your concerns, but a lot of complaints above aren't that strong. With new double implicits on rares, real damage may be up from last league. Rain of splinters 30% reduced damage is meaningless, tiny %less damage.

The problem is reduced quality of life, defenses, and no way to get 5 projectiles and reasonable damage (threshold jewels). Pandemonius blind was great, blind is now worthless without solid evasion. Single target was always a significant weak spot, with poor single target and reduced clear (threshold jewels again), I don't see a reason to play it currently. GMP/LMP replacing a more multiplier with a less multiplier isn't viable, bosses would never die. And clearing tanky rares I'd question as well.

On the plus side, Wallach's siege ballista totems are quite excellent. Single target is amazing with barrage, and solid without barrage. And they can reasonably get 5 projectiles. (playstyle feels a lot different though, not for everyone and takes getting used to) Solid armor, spell suppression, and very high regen. You definitely die on occasion, but I reached 98 not making crazy sacrifices to play safe. (the 100 above was pure breachstone runs)