Strike skills need a lot more help to be competitive

"

sidtherat wrote:

"

ciel289 wrote:

what i really disliked though was the comparison to forbidden rite,its just not fair when you ignore the biggest drawback of fr
fr has a selfdamaging component that has to be build around

with such a drawback it should be stronger/better than most other skills that dont have one
the extend on how much it is better,is too much though

i felt that way until i actually gave it a shot. and it is a faux-drawback once you actually spend 10c to fix it

you wouldnt know looking at PoB that i actually had to try to fix that..
- Occultist - easy 75% chaos (dont need to go for +max chaos res)
- life recoup id use anyway
- life gain on hit for spells id use anyway

that drawback reads 'you need to cap your chaos res' - it laughable how easy it is to fix it. Forbidden Rite is just ABSURDLY strong and that lame excuse of drawback is simply smoke and mirrors

my ghetto gear (check the chest.. i couldnt care less about fixing it after completing the endgame runs):

i also have the timeless jewel with spell damage per power charge

"

sidtherat wrote:

So, i gave it yet another try - the so called 'open mind' approach.

PoB: https://pastebin.com/F2Hkmj73

VDoubleStrike, 2h, Slayer.

Got to lvl 93, used Melee Splash for the first serious time once i hit 93 to do some comparison runs. How? LEGACY explody chest. Sadly, it is now legacy and random chance makes it unreliable. Bleed-Gloves require heavier-than-expected investment into bleed chance. Not to mention they ROB US from +strike target affix/implicit. Character is comfortable in endgame (T16 maps with all the juice, ~300 delve etc) and has the damage to kill any endgame boss excluding BS ones.

Gear is.. mixed bag. Weapon + Chest are rather very good. Everything else i got from my stash and bought the amulet for 30c or something. I think that realistic gear upgrades (esp in resistances department) can result in 20% more damage.

Conclusions?

It was fun (i enjoy this playstyle) and the damage is there (it better be with 700pdps effective weapon), the clear is.. there if you run Awakened Ancestral Call and spam Ancestral Cry all the time. What is not there is the 'x factor', that something that makes me consider this choice over Cyclone or Blade Storm or pretty much any ranged-melee option out there

Having played Forbidden Rite as my previous character the difference is rather striking (lol):

- Forbidden Rite deal ABSURD damage and has a built in, smart clearing option making 'run in circles and volley' extremely effective and easy.

Double Strike has neither. Comparing boss kill times and normalizing for that, FR requires about HALF passive point investment to reach the same damage. HALF. You can mix in damage, defences, misc and convenience - with Double Strike it is life and damage. The accidental defences i pick (~90% armour) is worthless. Expected investment thresholds are banana. No wonder melee in general and strikes in particular are treated like utter crap. They are. They simply are and it is because of hard numbers.

- Damage delivery is obviously better for FR. You can offscreen, you dont have to worry about adds (4/5-way legions are pretty dope with FR thanks to all that free chests you get while focusing on generals only). Double Strike relies on clones, the damage is conditional (and you CAN be unlucky with bleed chance) and for the passive tree investment - isnt anything spectacular. You get single target worse than a skill that has also amazing clear

- Scaling physical melee should be called 'impale'. You just have to use it. Pride watchers (that i do not use in this build) is broken-mandatory. This makes scaling phys attacks both streamlined AF and weak, because the 'power density' in impale nodes is low - you need ~10 points to reach investment threshold

- Leveling as melee is garbage. There is sadly no other word to describe it. Chasing new weapons is unfun experience (on a skill with a hefty flat phys!). Compared to FR leveling i did with one white wand and a Lifesprig (legit havent noticed it was white till lvl 68) - it is just revolting. Twinking isnt much better for 2h swords, there is a big gap between lvl 22 and lvl 44 (no, that Breach sword does not cut it)

- My FR build was in reality 2 click affair: main attack and flame dash. Everything else was fully automated (charge generation, wither, guard skill, summon golem etc). Melee dude on the other hand:
- Ancestral Protector
- Ancestral Warchief (they DOUBLE my damage)
- Ancestral Cry for dense packs OR phys bosses (it gives nice chunk of AR)
- VDouble Strike when needed
- Dread Banner for +10 max fortify for few seconds (ofc you need to pick it up. the technology to recast it on expiration is not there yet)


- Warlord's Mark is a meme. It gives leech noone gives f.. about because with 6m dps you saturate your leech instantly with .2. It gives you rage.. on boss stun. And stun has been broken for 3 leagues now, so this one is useless too.. and gives you stun duration. Is there a single person at GGG that actually used it after (re)design? Ive used it all the way to 93 and now I'm 100% sure it is a dead gem, in the Chance to Flee or Conversion Trap tier


GGG, please, get a grip and actually do something with melee. Right now it is a disaster and any new player picking this choice has a significant chance of leaving in disgust. It needs SERIOUS damage buff, streamlining of buff tools and making passives 'more dense' in power and ffs fix the 'melee only' stuff like stun

"

TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

It all went to shit after

-Harvest nerf
-support gem nerfs
-skill gem nerfs
-gear nerf (explody)
-threshold jewel nerfs
-monster damage and life buffs
-Fortify nerf
-passive tree nerf
-cluster jewel nerfs
-map mods (negative) buffs, (no regen, no leech are lot more common)
-flask nerfs

So it's a lot of crap that went down in melee direction while basically it got nothing melee specific in return in the meantime.

"

goldbergshekelstein wrote:

GGG doesnt find the idea of face to face combat to be attractive.