Hiltless and charge when hit bug.

TLDR; "Inexorable" node, wich gives "25% chance to gain an endurance charge when you are hit", not working with reflected damage from Hiltless. Not even enduring composure seems to work, wich makes me think that the reflected damage from Hiltless is not being considered as being hit for some not-logical reason.

CASE REPORT:

I'm using Hiltless, wich is a sword that makes the player take reflected physical damage every time it hits an enemy;

This reflected physical damage COUNT AS A HIT, because I have consistent flask charge gain on my flasks with the mod "gain # of charges when YOU ARE HIT BY AN ENEMY", just by hitting the enemy;

I allocated "Inexorable" node, wich gives the player a "25% chance to gain an Endurance Charge WHEN YOU ARE HIT", wich doesn't even specify the source of the hit, like the flask mod (by an enemy);

Went to maps and started attacking;

Endurance charge generation seems ULTRA slow, considering the amount of hits I do per second, and considering that each hit I DO, I take back as reflected, wich is a hit;

The generation is so slow that it can't sustain endurances with 9 second cooldown;

First thought is that its clearly a bug, because the wording seems legit to my interpretetion that I would have 25% chance to gain an endurance charge per hit I do to the enemy, wich would hit me back with reflected damage that is a hit;

Tried a testing to see if the 25% chance was no big difference for proccing;

Equipped Scold's Briddle, wich makes the player take 400% of the mana cost of the skill "used" as physical damage, wich count as a hit aswell;

Started attack with Lightning Strike, wich has a WAY SLOWER proc rate for the self-inflict damage, because its "reflect/use", and I'm using Multistrike support, wich lowers my proc rate/sec, because the repetitions don't count as a "use";

Managed to stack my full endurances with 10 "uses" or so of Lightning Strike while using Scold's Briddle;

Conclusion: Both sources of self-inflict physical damage count as a hit, but the mod from "Inexorable" seems to be bugged and not working with the reflected damage of Hiltless.

Hey mate, I tested this using Eye of Innocence and an Ignite build, and the Inexorable passive works very quickly. Endurance charges build up quickly with cyclone or strike skills with lots of attack speed and multistrike. I believe each hit (even with multistrike) has a chance to proc the inexorable effect. I'm constantly having max charges ready for my Immortal Call CWDT, single target and mapping.

Incorrect info I gave before


EDIT: Sorry it seems I made a mistake here and must've been wearing Eye Of Innocence in my Hiltless setup, hence generating the charges from Inexorable. I've confirmed that Hiltless doesn't work with Inexorable, but still generates flask charges with flagellant flask.

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LedZeppe1in wrote:

Hey mate, I tested this using Eye of Innocence and an Ignite build, and the Inexorable passive works very quickly. Endurance charges build up quickly with cyclone or strike skills with lots of attack speed and multistrike. I believe each hit (even with multistrike) has a chance to proc the inexorable effect. I'm constantly having max charges ready for my Immortal Call CWDT, single target and mapping.

I also tried it with Hiltless(cyclone and molten strike), and the endurance charges build very quickly (each molten strike projectile that hits a target has a chance to proc inexorable it seems). Maybe they've buffed it, or maybe your Hiltless build needs higher accuracy/Resolute technique and faster attack rate to see it really work effectively?

Thank you for your reply.

Since it was an interaction i've had tested last league (and haven't touched since) I can't say they "fixed" it. The thing is that "reflected damage", for some reason, doesn't count as a hit for "when hit" procs.

You said you've tested it with Hiltess (cyc and molten strike), but where you using Eye of Innocence? If thats the case, you're generating endurances because of the fire damage taken from the amulet (wich is not a reflected damage), just like Scold's Bridle, and not from the reflected damage from Hiltless. (Can you confirm this?)

The potential bug here is that hits from reflected damage proc when hit effects for flasks with that mod (Flagellant's and other), so they get charges. And not that reflected damage hits doesn't proc Inexorable, so it doesn't give endurance charges. Cuz reflected damage is not supposed to proc such effects. I'm saying "potential" since as they still haven't fixed this (it's been working like this forever I guess), there might be a reasonable excuse to not do that.

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MonaHuna wrote:

The potential bug here is that hits from reflected damage proc when hit effects for flasks with that mod (Flagellant's and other), so they get charges. And not that reflected damage hits doesn't proc Inexorable, so it doesn't give endurance charges. Cuz reflected damage is not supposed to proc such effects. I'm saying "potential" since as they still haven't fixed this (it's been working like this forever I guess), there might be a reasonable excuse to not do that.

Actually, the flask mods states that you gain charges upon being hit by an "enemy hit", and reflect damage should be an "enemy hit", since its being reflected from the enemy, wich is the source of the hit. But it doesn't make sense when it comes to "when hit" effects not being procced by reflected damage.

Thats how I approach this.

Reflected damage is NOT an enemy "hit". It's its (I hate the English language) own source of damage. It makes you hit yourself.

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Filipinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn1 wrote:

Thank you for your reply.

Since it was an interaction i've had tested last league (and haven't touched since) I can't say they "fixed" it. The thing is that "reflected damage", for some reason, doesn't count as a hit for "when hit" procs.

You said you've tested it with Hiltess (cyc and molten strike), but where you using Eye of Innocence? If thats the case, you're generating endurances because of the fire damage taken from the amulet (wich is not a reflected damage), just like Scold's Bridle, and not from the reflected damage from Hiltless. (Can you confirm this?)

Hey again, you were right in that matter, I must have kept my Eye of Innocence on, as the Hiltless self-reflect with the Inexorable passive node doesn't work. I've confirmed this while mapping and in my hideout. If I have time, might make a video later. So my results in a nutshell:

Test A: Hiltless + Molten Strike + Inexorable passive allocated
Result: No endurance charges generated.

Test B: Any Fire weapon with high crit, and/or ignite support gems + Molten Strike + Eye of Innocence + Inexorable passive allocated
Result: Endurance charges are generated.

(Tests done in my hideout with The Writhing Jar Flask)

Some other funny tests/interactions:

*Test: Stormfire Ring + Eye of Innocence + Lightning weapon with high crit or chance to shock + Inexorable passive allocated
Result: Endurance charges generated

* Igniting strikes still generate endurance charges when the Inexorable passive is anointed on your amulet (just incase anyone was interested)

*Igniting strikes trigger Eye of Innocence and also trigger the Courage passive node (30% bonus armour when hit)

*Test: Summon Raging Spirits + Heartbound Loop + Inexorable
Result: Endurance charges generated

*Vengeance is pretty much triggered 100% of the time, making it viable for mark-on-hit, power-charge on crit, onslaught setup etc. (after its cooldown)

*On block effects aren't triggered despite being able to block the reflected hits from Hiltless, big sad face :(



Editing my first post to reflect what I found.

In conclusion, it must be in the wording or some strange specifics (Flagellant flasks still generate charges with Hiltless, so it counts the reflected damage as a hit?). Like the guy above me said, it's a Reflected hit and not an enemy hit, so if anything, the Flagellant flasks should not work either, key phrase being "hit by an enemy", or maybe it could be interpreted differently where the enemy is "reflecting" damage back to you when you hit them (like the map mod), hence being a hit from an enemy? (This is where I'm confused).

TL;DR
1. Hits that ignite + Eye of Innocence + Inexorable charge gain works (and flask charges gain from Flagellant flask too)

2. Self-reflect physical hit from Hiltless + Inexorable charge gain doesn't work (but flask charges gain from Flagellant flask too)

Intended or a bug? Not sure.