Feedback: Harvest in 3.17
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Yo!
I'm here once again asking for your support! Jokes aside, I wanted to give a little bit of a Feedback on how I feel about the changes done to Harvest after some rigorous Harvest grinding I've done this league, every node allocated on the tree, expect for Bountiful Harvest (200% EXP + 50% extra monster). Firstly: Personal Context and statistics
Spoiler
My Atlas Skill Tree for reference
- Playing Harvest because I like the free crafts, the vibe it has, and the passive income it generated for me trough selling crafts - Roughly 450-550 Plots have been harvested - Exclusively played in HC Archnemesis (Unsure if that matters) Tier 4 [Named bosses] crafts I found - Synthesize an item [1x] [Found in Kirac Mission of all places :D] - Fracture an item with at least 5 Mods [1x] Rare Crafts I found - Augment Physical [1x] Semi-Rare Crafts I found - Reforge Keep Prefix/Suffix [7x] - Harvest Exalted Orb [6x] Chance of me finding a plot with a T4 seed,based on my encounter statistics: 0.4% [Ouch..] Secondly: Changes from 3.16 to 3.17 that interact in some way with Harvest
Spoiler
+ You can now run any maps you want, due to the loss of regions (This is a buff) + The chance for additional crafts is now slightly higher + The Chance for finding Harvest is greatly increased (From 12% to 18% per map) + Not having to roll Watchstones to make Harvest feel good - We have lost Mature For context, Mature was a prefix mod on the previously craftable watchstones and did the following Mature: Harvest Crops in Areas have an extra chance to grow higher Tier Plants What does this mean? Increased quantity of encounters, reduced quality of plots Lastly: Personal Opinion / Conclusion
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Trying to fish for deterministic Augments or T4 seeds have continued to become almost out of reach, to a point that they end up being "Too good to be used". I'm all about for a grind, hint's in the company's name, but this almost seems... excessive. The power of Harvest has already been reduced quite severely with the latest updates as is, and while I heavily appreciate the support in the Atlas skill tree it has been given, it somehow manages to feel worse than Watchstone crafting for Mature + extra crafts chances. My proposed solution would be to either replace Bountiful Harvest with old Mature [EXP gain is not something you exactly look for in Harvest], or add it on top of existing Bountiful Harvest, to make it a risk vs potential reward kind of deal. Final words to GGG and readers Thanks for consistently improving on a great, addictive game and thanks for the patience you've shown towards your playerbase! Thanks to whoever reached the end of this post by reading trough it all! Sincerely, Rakushi Last bumped on Mar 25, 2022, 5:13:21 PM
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i did over 600 plots at least
i do feel burned out when i dont have anything to look forward to. its just reforge and reforge aka semi-deterministic chaos spam till you hit -something-. its very boring. even reforge more def or something don't work as intended when used with cannot change suffix or something. you usually get just 1x t10 mod. believe me i tried over 10 times across 2 leagues. an aug is worth like 10ex (except aug inf) and is as rare as sacred orb.... and oods are you're targeting a t1 mod and are less likely to hit that than other tiers. ive hit nice rolls here and there and the feeling isnt wow i crafted well. feeling was: yea..... rng. boring. ggg is boring. (same as eldritch crafting btw) anyway, instead of crafting for myself, i ended up selling more midrange products for 1-30ex and then buying max roll ones for 50-70ex. if my gamble had been non-def to def or remove def add def it'd have felt better even if i dont hit instead of no-brain all luck crafting. also having augs appear more often, perhaps as often as exalt drops instead of sacred orbs would be something to look forward to.. instead of boring reforges. it doesnt have to be as often as in ritual league. just more often. one of the worst trash leagues btw. `Spent 2 mirrors on my build, but I'm only Level 98.` LOL
`From just quick sweep of your characters, toxic rain, golems .. sure, non meta... sure.` LOL `What are divs?` |
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oof. Going off your rates (and being generous), we end up with 2 good crafts per 500 maps. If you have a REALLY good build it takes maximum of 2 minutes to clear a map, probably up to 3 minutes reading mods and setting things up etc.
So in 3 minutes x 500 = 1500 minutes or 25 hours of playtime you get 2 chances at crafting ONE item (and basically 1 mod at that). Not counting the odds of successful crafting, you are looking at hundreds if not thousands of hours of harvest farming to craft a single piece of gear... Harvest is still OKAY for getting low to mid tier items but the fact that it is basically unusable for what it was designed for is such a shame. I hate how it seems like GGG's philosophy is that you shouldn't be doing anything from beginning to end on your own unless you are spending your LIFE on a single character. Yes I know SSF is a thing, but you should have a reasonable chance of crafting true endgame gear even in SSF, which you currently do not without an INSANE amount of playtime. If I were balancing the game, and before others step in to tear this apart I KNOW its not perfect..., I would make it so a solo player farming efficiently could theoretically craft near-perfect gear (explicit mods only) in, let's say, 1000 hours of playtime. It could then take an exponentially greater amount of time to get these items with proper implicits, enchants, corruptions, etc. for those that truly want to min/max. But being able to see the full potential of a build in the game without relying on a trade system and in a reasonable amount of time is the mark of a successful game and also one that promotes replayability and experimentation with many different builds. Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Mar 20, 2022, 9:53:03 PM
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" harvest on its own often isnt that great,but if you combine it with meta crafts,fractured items and eldritch currency its very powerfull often you can even add another awesome mod with t4 aisling the trageted chaos craft can be very rewarding if you are aweare of modpools on itemtypes i.e influenced rings crafted with caster mods has very good odds of getting a curse on hit |
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most of my sold crafts were low-mid tier trash. i didn't complete any tier1 items. maybe just a tier2 one but wait that's only because of jun stuff getting involved.
ive done a few leagues of reforging now, i have not finished any w0wzer crafts. whats the difference between that and tier2 crafts? usually very little. i get burned out and stop playing earlier than "oh i got it all now, time to just play" sometimes i feel you're gonna get more currency flipping and scamming people than actually playing. and.......... thats actually what people are doing because they must of realized -actually- playing is just less rewarding. and b4 u ppl think im just a poor bloke complaining, im very well geared. `Spent 2 mirrors on my build, but I'm only Level 98.` LOL
`From just quick sweep of your characters, toxic rain, golems .. sure, non meta... sure.` LOL `What are divs?` |
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@ciel: ofc that's all true, I wasn't really specifically talking about only Harvest.
But even using all of that, it takes wayyyyy too long to craft t1 items. Think about how long it takes to get an exalt drop, or farm exalt cards to even use a single metacraft without trade...I totally get that you don't NEED t1 items to complete all content, but I am specifically saying full t1 basic gear (non-ascended, non-implicit, etc) should be within reach in a much more reasonable amount of time for players balanced around solo play. There's always going to be those perfect, implicit, corrupted, synthesized, awakened gear that can take far longer to achieve. Let's be real: PoE is not a multiplayer game...it is a single player game with multiplayer functionality. The game should be less tuned around interacting with other players via multiplayer farming or trade, and more around what you can achieve on your own. Granted, it can't be all balanced around either SP or MP, but I personally believe that it should lean towards providing a good SP experience. The current iteration of PoE is terrible for SP except if you have oodles of experience. Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Mar 20, 2022, 10:21:54 PM
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" unfortunately that is an ideal, not the reality. there are too many benefits of playing in a team. better drops, less chance enemy targets you etc. a team can have an aura bot, and a dedicated curser. item drops are based on multiplayer economy. i believe what you and me want is what people who asked for SSF originally wanted. GGG cave in, players finally got a SSF mode but without any real solo play benefits. i really resent that playing in party is so good that players invite others to party up for the sole purpose of juicing up their map. [Removed by Support]
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" if you think setting up group play is easy or cheap, go try it. if you have the knowledge, time, coordination, you should be allowed to succeed more than others. this is like resenting microsoft for being a corporation and that individual developers should have equal profits as big corporations. `Spent 2 mirrors on my build, but I'm only Level 98.` LOL
`From just quick sweep of your characters, toxic rain, golems .. sure, non meta... sure.` LOL `What are divs?` |
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Please, you are digressing away from Harvest into Multiplayer versus Singleplayer :X
Make a new thread if you want to discuss that, as it has little to do with how effective harvest is from an encounter to encounter basis, or of what was originally posted :x |
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^I understand that it seems like a digression, but you can't talk about a crafting system without talking about how itemization in general is balanced in the game. Talking about Harvest IS talking about multiplayer vs singleplayer. It is the very reason why Harvest went through so many iterations: GGG balancing around SP, then MP, then back to a hybrid of both.
Those good mods are so rare now because they were too frequent in the original Harvest and caused any noob player to be able to craft godly gear. Then it was nerfed to oblivion, then it recouped some power BUT it's still balanced around the fact that the entire community at large has access to the mods. So rather than GGG seeing the individual player getting 1/500 for t4 plants, they see that across the 30-40k players t4 plants are coming up a certain amount of times TOTAL. Which then translates to mirror tier or upper tier items are readily available in the trade market. Based on this info, Harvest is GOOD to GGG. This is how they balance, around the multiplayer aspect rather than the individual play impact. But yes, I understand that we can do more to tie it BACK to Harvest... Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Mar 21, 2022, 1:11:15 PM
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