Who is the source for Punishment Curse?

Hi there!

I've been trying to look for some clarity on the punishment curse's line stating "10% of Overkill Damage from Killing Blows on Cursed Enemies is Reflected to other enemies as Physical damage"

As a Cursebot player i've been supporting a few Magic Finders that stack Item Rarity & Quantity and they commonly ask me if Punishment messes up their Magic Find stats.

As far as i personally can tell from ~1000 map samplesize it seems to not effect it. Atleast not to the extend where their global increased Rarity & Quantity (from equipped gear) is not applying. It would be hard to figure out if the Local Item Quantity & Rarity (from skill gems) though.



I also struggle to find a propper definition for reflected damage. And wether or not reflected damage has the same damage source of whatever skill killed it.

example: Tornado short linked with item quantity kills a target, enemy next to the killed target dies to punishments 10% overkill reflect.
Is the source:
1: The user of the curse (No Magic Find would apply)
2: The killer of the initial monster (Global Magic Find would apply)
3: The Tornado Shot of the killer (Global and Local Magic Find would apply)



I hope i gave enough clarity on the question. Please only care to respond if you have a clear answer perferably with some proof to back it up.

Very valid question. Hoping we could get some clarification on this subject.

My intuition is that the reflected damage belongs to the player that dealt it, in this case the Magic Finder. However, I don't have any proof of it.

A good way to test things like this is with the Golden Rule jewel, assuming that it applies on reflected damage. Get your carry to 100% poison chance with gems and tree, get them to slot a Golden Rule, and find two monsters next to each other. Kill one with a single target skill. If they get 2 poison stacks on themself, then you know at least their global quant applies to the reflected damage.

You may also be able to test skill-specific quant (item quant gem is the only one I can think of, unless you're using Shattered Chains for some reason) this way, if some of the poison chance comes from support gems etc., though I am less sure that this test would work since the wording is a little funky.

Alternatively, you could test with something a little more visual than quant - say an explosion for example. If the carry has some chance to explode on kill and you repeat the two-monsters-next-to-each-other test, if the reflected damage causes the second monster to explode then I would take that as solid evidence towards the Punishment reflect belonging to the carry.

Let me know if you try some tests, I'd love to know the answer.

@MarkGGG just in case he wants to swoop in and reveal the inner workings of this mechanic.

I think it might be possible to get lowered item quantity for a test setup, so you could use that to check who gets the kill by whether or not loot drops at all.

I do not recall the exact items required for it or if it was only possible with scourged mods or something.

Do area modifiers apply to the reflected damage? More specifically, +increased area effect on the gem, +radius from the gem, or generic area modifiers from whoever triggers the overkill?

Thanks alot for the responses, really appriciate the clarifications!


Is the damage dealt by the curse in some way scalable?

when is the eta that the reflected Punishment Curse would kill the player themselves as both monster and the players are cursed ?

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

Any area modifiers affecting the Punishment skill will affect the area it finds enemies in to reflect the damage at.

Mark, on the topic of curses .. you probably won't answer this, but I'll fire my shot.

Why must it be so difficult to have any type of cursing setup if you decide to play traps in POE? ;& (I don't feel traps are so popular that they need to feel so gimped.. traps often avoided just due to how they function. Their slow animation speed in the air and trap throwing speed not affecting that animation "flying" speed at all, so first you wait for the animation, then you wait for the triggering..)

But then for debuffing, it seems, regardless how many sockets I'm willing to spare, I just can't do any cursing/marking with a trap setup.

Curse on hit(hex support now) / Mark on hit etc ...

Why are none of those allowed to work with trap skills?

And when that's the case, then why are trap skills fine inheriting on-hit effects from other sources, like blind on hit (shaper gloves/sabo ascend) or curse on hit (shaper rings)... These work just fine with traps... why can't any gem setups be allowed to?

Would be so cool if you could do stuff like bear trap + mark on hit + assassins mark etc .. it's 3 sockets you give up, for some debuffing, but for some reason, just because it's a trap.. its not okay.. is there a reason for that?

You also took away the MARK on hit from shaper rings in 3.17 .. that was literally the last known way of crafting a really cool high-end curse ring, as a trapper ( a mark curse ring ..) .. as it was the only way to get mark on-hit that still got inherited by traps, for some reason. (Well now its gone... -.-)

/DissentXTV -- a very dedicated trapper ;D
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2661748/page/1