Attack based mine and trap builds caught in the crossfire of nerfing non self-casted spells

While the changes to support gems for mines and traps make sense from the perspective of making sure self cast spells have a chance to shine, they also needlessly nerf the mine and trap builds that aren't spell based.

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Blastchain Mine Support: Supported Skills now deal 59% less Damage at gem level 1 (previously 40%), and 53% less at gem level 20 (previously 33%).

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Trap Support: Supported Skills now deal 20% less Trap Damage at gem level 1, and 11% less at gem level 20 (previously 38% increased at gem level 20).

Instead of nerfing underused builds like wander traps and mines, why not specifically focus these nerfs on spells by instead adding a line that says "Supported Skills deal x% less Spell Damage" to these trap and mine support gems? This way you still get the wanted effect of making sure that you don't unintentionally buff mine and trap spells, while not nerfing already niche builds in the process.

This seems like a big oversight which harms build diversity for no obvious reason, in an update to the game which is meant to shake up the meta and encourage players to try new things. I was surprised to see such a careless change in the patch notes and I hope tweaks can be made to the support gems in question.

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111derivi wrote:

While the changes to support gems for mines and traps make sense from the perspective of ...

Excuse me, what? From no perspective does it make sense to nerf mines out of all build archetypes, the playstyle has been beyond dead for quite some time now with the reworks (mines 3.8 then GC) and the constant target nerfs (think Pyro) and the 3.15 blanket nerf, you're only making sure with these nerfs that mines are barely played because any mine build is a chore to scale to a reasonable level nowadays.

You're also forgetting that Added flat x damage gems are getting nerfed too which does affect some mine specs as well.

I'd even argue that it's unnecessary to nerf traps, Seismic is strong but it's not representative of what traps are like in general, it was an exception while other traps are mediocre for the most part and will just be even worse now for no reason.

Classic ggg can't buff something without nerfing something else.

Traps & Mines have had a very long backed up elephant dump waiting for them for a while.

Most trigger effects have and were rightfully nerfed after far too long.

It doesn't matter if the majority don't play it. It's been beyond busted.

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déspair wrote:

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111derivi wrote:

While the changes to support gems for mines and traps make sense from the perspective of ...

From no perspective does it make sense to nerf mines out of all build archetypes, the playstyle has been beyond dead for quite some time now

What you're saying is certainly backed up by the statistics from a quick look at the ladder on poe.ninja. Even at the peak of the power of traps and mines in the early days of the league, traps and mines are not nearly as popular as other playstyles. That's with seismic trap still intact and before the proposed nerfs to mine and trap support gems.

The current poe.ninja stats puts traps at 3% and mines at under 1% of played builds. While this isn't the perfect representation of the archetypes popularity, those numbers will take a dive due to the changes coming in this patch.

To reiterate, I can understand the nerfs coming to seismic trap and spells used as traps or mines, but the nerfs shouldn't also extend to less played, less prominent niche builds that also use traps and mines such as power siphon or kinetic blast mines for example.

Not to be mean; but GGG rarely (if ever) actually corrects one of their own mistakes. If anything; they tend to double down and then eventually nerf 'it' so hard nobody plays 'it' anymore before 'reworking' 'it' completely.

So you will probably not be playing mines for very long if this is the subtext direction they're going.

Sorry your Toxic Rain trapper got nerfed.

Rest of the bow builds got buffed. Other than bow build... I have no idea what trapper you're referring to that's not a bow build and not a spell caster.

FYI, the new 'influenced implicits' add a ton of power, so even if there's something I can't think of, that probably got buffed too.

Thread over.

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Immoteph wrote:

Sorry your Toxic Rain trapper got nerfed.

Rest of the bow builds got buffed. Other than bow build... I have no idea what trapper you're referring to that's not a bow build and not a spell caster.

FYI, the new 'influenced implicits' add a ton of power, so even if there's something I can't think of, that probably got buffed too.

Thread over.

Incredible that somebody who clearly didn't read through the thread and doesn't know what weapon types traps and mines can be used with thinks they have the authority to "end" a thread.