Projectile speed, bows.

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TemjinGold wrote:

I stand corrected then. That's mind blowing that they would do that especially because it's generic damage, which means Toxic Rain will be way more busted than it already is.

Toxic Rain is getting a nerf to its base dps though (~16.5% less damage at level 20, no information on higher levels yet but it might get worse since it is unchanged at level 1).

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DER_PSYCHOPATH wrote:

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TemjinGold wrote:

I stand corrected then. That's mind blowing that they would do that especially because it's generic damage, which means Toxic Rain will be way more busted than it already is.

Toxic Rain is getting a nerf to its base dps though (~16.5% less damage at level 20, no information on higher levels yet but it might get worse since it is unchanged at level 1).

It is but if this mastery works the way you guys say, it will be nothing compared to the power you get. Quill Rain will outclass the rare bow given it has 100% proj speed on it. If you aren't familiar, DoT builds are mostly starved for %increased damage because they have very few ways of getting it. I would not be surprised if TR doubles in damage due to this mastery.

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TemjinGold wrote:

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DER_PSYCHOPATH wrote:

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TemjinGold wrote:

I stand corrected then. That's mind blowing that they would do that especially because it's generic damage, which means Toxic Rain will be way more busted than it already is.

Toxic Rain is getting a nerf to its base dps though (~16.5% less damage at level 20, no information on higher levels yet but it might get worse since it is unchanged at level 1).

It is but if this mastery works the way you guys say, it will be nothing compared to the power you get. Quill Rain will outclass the rare bow given it has 100% proj speed on it. If you aren't familiar, DoT builds are mostly starved for %increased damage because they have very few ways of getting it. I would not be surprised if TR doubles in damage due to this mastery.

I do not think that the increased damage for TR builds was anywhere near that low. Scaling gem levels should still be one of the greatest multipliers available, though perhaps rare body armours or a +1 corrupted Skin of the Loyal will see more use with Quill Rain now instead of everyone having the same crafted bow.

The Hunter influence increased damage over time mod also grants at least 60% increased damage, so even if Quill Rain gets a significant boost, its advantage should not be too great to be overcome by a rare item.

It is worth noting that the former elemental damage mod on quivers now also applies to physical and chaos damage, which means the build will have more increased damage available now than before. Which overall makes the build stronger of course, but I doubt its damage will be doubled due to the mastery.

Scaling gem levels will still be a focus, no doubt. Quill rain as is barely loses to the rare bow. If you tack on 100% increased global damage, the rare will lose.

I realize there are new other sources that provide 50-60% each. The problem is, a moderate investment into Proj speed on the tree and gear can net you 400% or more increased from that ONE mastery point. I don't think you realize the magnitude of what that does.

I don't play TR (was going to try it for the first time this league actually before I heard about this and therefore have done a ton of research and character testing in preparation for league start). But I've played a lot of DOT builds in the past so I am very aware of how valuable %increased damage is (a stat that is near worthless on almost every other build).

Of the 3 components to damage--base, increased, multiplier, most builds have an easy time with the first 2, making multiplier extremely valuable. For DOT builds though, base and multiplier are the 2 it excels in, making increased the extremely valuable mod (this is because most sources of increased damage on gear and tree do not apply to DOTs). Depending on the tuning of the build, this mastery has the power of ~150-200% crit multi for non-DOTs in 1 point.

The issue relates to toxic rain's dps being affected (or not?) by the mastery on the large bow wheel in the ranger's area, namely:

Increases and reductions to projectile speed also apply to damage with bows.

The wording would suggest that the increases to proj. speed affects the damage with bows.
However, while damage with bows nodes affect TR's tooltip dps (it is visible as calculation increase), while this node taken in game does not (not visible as calculation increase).
People say, that this increase is visible in POB's calculation, however I cannot rely on this, as I cannot setup POB to import my char's, using it merely as a character's planner, besides I wouldn't count on sth that 3rd party program says, while the game's calculation contradicts it.

The wording suggests that this mastery should work if one actually has sources of proj. speed increases available, and I do have several.

IT DOES NOT.

So to reiterate:

The node's wording is clear.
The node is taken.
The generic damage with bows nodes increase the calculation in game.
The node despite it should because it equals the above, does not.

The support team refused to answer this question, giving the same canned response 3 times :)

Not sure TR's spore DoT benefits from that projectile speed mastery at all. Mastery applies to damage with bows, and DoT is detached from weapon's base damage, to the point that even kills made with it are not "kills with a bow".

Mastery likely affects TR's arrow hits, but doubt anyone uses TR for those hits.