Ok, that's cool for bowyers

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kenbak wrote:

Thanks for the answer.

I was just imagining that this archetype must actually be more squishy, ​​as due to the playstyle, it will naturally take a lot less damage.
On investment, yes, investment is needed, but as I said this will only happen in mid and endgame (min max). Interestingly, if I compare high-investment Ranger vs Melee builds, Ranger will outperform Melee in clear and be able to do all the hard content that is supposedly "targeted" for melee builds.

So is Melee an archetype aimed only for early game? But, I think maybe in this patch, this time not even for the early game it will be advantageous to choose Melee XD

i think you are misunderstanding
if you put the same level of investment into basically any mechanically decent build its gonna shit all over everything, including a vast array of melee builds. the level where bow builds start to shine is practically unreachable for 99% of the player base. and yes, at that point its gonna clear better than most other builds, because thats what bows do, they cover a lot of ground quickly, but its not gonna be close to the best at anything else. at this point of investment you would also expect your character to be able to do every type of content, so naturally these builds can also do other things.

and no its not in mid and endgame vs early game, it starts at 5x the price of what solid builds need to do all endgame content comfortably

you can try it for yourself. try league starting an ice shot build or something and you are gonna see what it feels like to be extremely under powered, even with the bow buff coming.

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kenbak wrote:

melee and pure phys builds seem to be increasingly at a disadvantage.

Melee is quite clunky until you get a bunch of damage projection tools onto your build, some of which are fairly expensive (like the glove mod for strike skills hitting additional enemies). Pure phys builds otoh are quite strong already.

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Exile009 wrote:

Pure phys builds otoh are quite strong already.

I was about to argue with you here, but it all boils down to our subjective definition of "quite strong", I guess.

In my eyes, pure phys builds had their glory days - but got nerfed VERY hard during the "great purge" that was 3.15. In addition, a lot of Impale builds got indirectly nerfed because of the new passive tree too, with some very weird positioning and underwhelming masteries gutting some notable clusters.

I will say elemental attacks are in a much better state right now, than pure phys builds. Especially elemental attacks utilizing Trinity.

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mrtournevis wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

...

Edit:- Also, they're called ARCHERS, not bowers.

Ok ty, always thought bowyers was the correct "old term" to designate bow users, since it's archers in french too (my native language). Noted.
...

Irrelevant but just to add to this tangent, an archer is the person who wields/shoots the bow, a bowyer is the crafter who makes bows.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

Pure phys builds otoh are quite strong already.

I will say elemental attacks are in a much better state right now, than pure phys builds. Especially elemental attacks utilizing Trinity.

I think this explains why my experience with pure physics was so inferior to what I imagined. I spent about 5 mirr on STD on an impale champion. It's not bad, but it definitely doesn't do the same as builds like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lbuzZhoudM


I've tried, but I can't find any Melee as "efficient" as this build style (archer).

If this patch notes is good for early game archers, I will definitely change my main char to a ranger

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kenbak wrote:

"

brunowa wrote:

"

kenbak wrote:

I've been watching a lot of videos of builds that use bow, they're usually doing really hard farms like beyond + deli. They have great clear, speed and can even kill bosses very well.

So the change was only intended for the "starter" of these builds? Or will this also affect the endgame of these builds?

What I've noticed over the short time I've been playing this game is that PoE seems to favor the "Ranger" playstyle incredibly, while melee and pure phys builds seem to be increasingly at a disadvantage. With spell suppression intact, it seems that there is a tendency for archers to be the "ultimate" style for this game.

Could someone clarify me?

Rangers are still more squishy.

The two most popular bow builds this league were 1) Toxic Rain CHAMPION, and 2) Tornado Shot (corrupted fever) GLADIATOR.

So no, even though Rangers are the "archetype" for bow players, the fact that their defences (even with the defence buffs) are overall worse makes other ascendies an attractive choice.

Bows typically can clear well with low budgets. But end-game bossing typically requires a very high investment.

Thanks for the answer.

I was just imagining that this archetype must actually be more squishy, ​​as due to the playstyle, it will naturally take a lot less damage.
On investment, yes, investment is needed, but as I said this will only happen in mid and endgame (min max). Interestingly, if I compare high-investment Ranger vs Melee builds, Ranger will outperform Melee in clear and be able to do all the hard content that is supposedly "targeted" for melee builds.

So is Melee an archetype aimed only for early game? But, I think maybe in this patch, this time not even for the early game it will be advantageous to choose Melee XD

Melee and bow can both clear end game very well. They both just need investment.

What you will typically find is that melee clears slower but bosses better. Bows clear better but boss slower.

With investment, melee can clear very very fast whilst still bossing greatly. On top of that, melee typically has greeter defences than a bow character. On top of that, it's typically cheaper to invest to this level of the game compared to bows.

So whilst bows are still great, their lack of comparative defence and the much higher min-max cost makes melee a very attractive choice.

Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference and how you like playing the game, what play style you prefer, what content you want to do, and how much time and currency you want to invest.

Edit: Also, that video you shared of the bow build has had insane levels of $$ invested. Yet it is still squishy in comparison to other builds. It's basically a kill or be killed build (glass canon). It relies heavily on hydrosphere (nerfed in 3.17) for single target and Headhunter buffs for defence and clear speed. So it requires a unique playstyle, and imo (yes I have played it) a not very enjoyable one.