Ok, that's cool for bowyers

And what about strikes playable without 15 ex investments?
Are we once again forced to be playing lightning strike in a simulacrum of pretending being a melee ?
Wild strike ? Sweep ? Even our lord and saviour Lacerate isn't played anymore

sir, bows needed 150 ex investment to be playable, not 15 ex

"

mrtournevis wrote:

And what about strikes playable without 15 ex investments?
Are we once again forced to be playing lightning strike in a simulacrum of pretending being a melee ?
Wild strike ? Sweep ? Even our lord and saviour Lacerate isn't played anymore

As much as I agree with you that certain melee skills are in dire need of some buffs, it's totally OK for them to focus on on-hit stuff for bows and self-cast, because they were maybe in a worse spot than melee.

They can't balance everything each league, especially on top of a league AND an endgame expansion.

But I think it's melee's time next league, and I would like to see as much love to strike skills as slam skills got a few leagues ago. The fact that Strike Skills still only target one enemy just doesn't work in the current game. You NEED "strike skills target additional enemies", and it's a fairly expensive mod to come by if you're not pathing to Tribal Fury.

Fix? Make Tribal Fury a mastery for several attack clusters. This SHOULD'VE been done last league.

Anyhow, bottom line: self-cast and bows needed some love too.

Edit: And IMO, "15ex" isn't too much. Beating the endgame should require some investment. The problem is that other skills/builds require far less investment.

Lacerate and Wild Strike are fine. Just cos they're not meta atm doesn't mean they're unviable. Sweep is just kinda an old skill that's been rendered obsolete by now. It'll never be popular again, as it just doesn't do anything interesting

The main change I'd make is just to make the "Strike skills target additional enemies" mod more easily available.

Edit:- Also, they're called ARCHERS, not bowers.

"

Exile009 wrote:

Lacerate and Wild Strike are fine. Just cos they're not meta atm doesn't mean they're unviable. Sweep is just kinda an old skill that's been rendered obsolete by now. It'll never be popular again, as it just doesn't do anything interesting

The main change I'd make is just to make the "Strike skills target additional enemies" mod more easily available.

Edit:- Also, they're called ARCHERS, not bowers.

Ok ty, always thought bowyers was the correct "old term" to designate bow users, since it's archers in french too (my native language). Noted.
As for the debate on viable/unviable, Phrazz made a good point, everything is playable, it's just really disgusting to see builds with sticks and stones like miners utterly destroying the content with a 5link when you're on hopium to see something for the melee boys.
Patience is a virtue I suppose.

"

mrtournevis wrote:

"

Exile009 wrote:

Lacerate and Wild Strike are fine. Just cos they're not meta atm doesn't mean they're unviable. Sweep is just kinda an old skill that's been rendered obsolete by now. It'll never be popular again, as it just doesn't do anything interesting

The main change I'd make is just to make the "Strike skills target additional enemies" mod more easily available.

Edit:- Also, they're called ARCHERS, not bowers.

Ok ty, always thought bowyers was the correct "old term" to designate bow users, since it's archers in french too (my native language). Noted.
As for the debate on viable/unviable, Phrazz made a good point, everything is playable, it's just really disgusting to see builds with sticks and stones like miners utterly destroying the content with a 5link when you're on hopium to see something for the melee boys.
Patience is a virtue I suppose.

with miners you pay the price of being clunky to play, requiring akward setups to maximize damage, and being squishy as hell on top

sure you can delete bosses with your prestacks but in a map you fall over to a gust of wind

I've been watching a lot of videos of builds that use bow, they're usually doing really hard farms like beyond + deli. They have great clear, speed and can even kill bosses very well.

So the change was only intended for the "starter" of these builds? Or will this also affect the endgame of these builds?

What I've noticed over the short time I've been playing this game is that PoE seems to favor the "Ranger" playstyle incredibly, while melee and pure phys builds seem to be increasingly at a disadvantage. With spell suppression intact, it seems that there is a tendency for archers to be the "ultimate" style for this game.

Could someone clarify me?

"

kenbak wrote:

I've been watching a lot of videos of builds that use bow, they're usually doing really hard farms like beyond + deli. They have great clear, speed and can even kill bosses very well.

So the change was only intended for the "starter" of these builds? Or will this also affect the endgame of these builds?

What I've noticed over the short time I've been playing this game is that PoE seems to favor the "Ranger" playstyle incredibly, while melee and pure phys builds seem to be increasingly at a disadvantage. With spell suppression intact, it seems that there is a tendency for archers to be the "ultimate" style for this game.

Could someone clarify me?

those builds are extremely expensive(not talking 50 ex, more like 500 ex), and the concept of a "budget" bow build does not exist at all, outside of toxic rain which is essentially a dot spell delivered by a bow. however, once you can achieve the necessary numbers for a bow build, it functions extremely well because the mechanic of multiple super fast moving projectiles is extremely good for clear IF, and ONLY IF, it packs a punch

furthermore they are quite tricky to build defense on. you obviously dont have access to a shield, and historically they have been pure glass cannons (its better now when you can build suppression and armor)

so yes, bow builds can be extremely good and very smooth, but the investment necessary to be able to comfortably clear is way out of reach for most players (hundreds of exalts minimum, and headhunter scaling a phys bow). they are in no way over powered in the current game, and need all the love they can get so that more people can enjoy the playstyle without getting deleted in alch and go t16s

"

kenbak wrote:

I've been watching a lot of videos of builds that use bow, they're usually doing really hard farms like beyond + deli. They have great clear, speed and can even kill bosses very well.

So the change was only intended for the "starter" of these builds? Or will this also affect the endgame of these builds?

What I've noticed over the short time I've been playing this game is that PoE seems to favor the "Ranger" playstyle incredibly, while melee and pure phys builds seem to be increasingly at a disadvantage. With spell suppression intact, it seems that there is a tendency for archers to be the "ultimate" style for this game.

Could someone clarify me?

Rangers are still more squishy.

The two most popular bow builds this league were 1) Toxic Rain CHAMPION, and 2) Tornado Shot (corrupted fever) GLADIATOR.

So no, even though Rangers are the "archetype" for bow players, the fact that their defences (even with the defence buffs) are overall worse makes other ascendies an attractive choice.

Bows typically can clear well with low budgets. But end-game bossing typically requires a very high investment.

"

brunowa wrote:

"

kenbak wrote:

I've been watching a lot of videos of builds that use bow, they're usually doing really hard farms like beyond + deli. They have great clear, speed and can even kill bosses very well.

So the change was only intended for the "starter" of these builds? Or will this also affect the endgame of these builds?

What I've noticed over the short time I've been playing this game is that PoE seems to favor the "Ranger" playstyle incredibly, while melee and pure phys builds seem to be increasingly at a disadvantage. With spell suppression intact, it seems that there is a tendency for archers to be the "ultimate" style for this game.

Could someone clarify me?

Rangers are still more squishy.

The two most popular bow builds this league were 1) Toxic Rain CHAMPION, and 2) Tornado Shot (corrupted fever) GLADIATOR.

So no, even though Rangers are the "archetype" for bow players, the fact that their defences (even with the defence buffs) are overall worse makes other ascendies an attractive choice.

Bows typically can clear well with low budgets. But end-game bossing typically requires a very high investment.

Thanks for the answer.

I was just imagining that this archetype must actually be more squishy, ​​as due to the playstyle, it will naturally take a lot less damage.
On investment, yes, investment is needed, but as I said this will only happen in mid and endgame (min max). Interestingly, if I compare high-investment Ranger vs Melee builds, Ranger will outperform Melee in clear and be able to do all the hard content that is supposedly "targeted" for melee builds.

So is Melee an archetype aimed only for early game? But, I think maybe in this patch, this time not even for the early game it will be advantageous to choose Melee XD