controler support for the pc version

it's not about how poe is played on a controler, it's how the game itself changes to meet the lower criteria and requirements of a much subpar input method.

i'm not against a console implementation, if people want to use a controler, why don't they buy a console? why ruin the experience for others?

and lastly, picking up stacks of currency does feel boring to me, it makes the game even more feel more like a job.

the prior challenge to ignore fragments (an ever so often failing) gave me a feeling of being challenged as a casal player.


regarding the point that all games nowadays support controlers:
most gaming frameworks have controler and eyboard support out of the box.

edit: charan is right, i reworded the post.

*LOL*

"

vio wrote:

it's not about how poe is played on a controler, it's how the game itself changes to meet the lower criteria and requirements of a much subpar input method.

+1 to: Console controlers are terrible input methods - so far.

Not sure though that I'm seeing them lower criterias and requirements - yet.

"

vio wrote:

and lastly, picking up stacks of currency does feel boring to me, it makes the game even more feel more like a job.

Imho that's GGGT's design choice. They are not very interested how we perceive the game in that aspect but instead use this like a gently applied pressure on its player base to make them buy more tabs. Only if the mood of the player base would deteriorate would they begin to worry...but again: not because they are interested in how we actually feel about this.

About currency drops:
They could either decide to drop less but more meaningful currency or drop way too much less meaningful currency (as is now) - but then please stack it.

About the game feeling like a job:
The game is a job for years already. Finding was massively replaced with Trading and if you play SSF you are facing a time-sink that is often unacceptable to most players due to real life circumstances.

I'm not judging GGGT for that. We can play or we stop.

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

But PoE? For a game that brought so many innovations to the table in 2012, it sure is stuck in the past.

+1

I'm glad you rescinded the call for closure because I think we have a good discussion going here. I apologise if I came across as harsh, but I suppose it's because I was where you are and couldn't imagine being anything else for so long. ARPGs on console WERE a gimmick -- but that didn't stop me from enjoying 'Diablo on the go' via the PSP port of the PS1 port of the original game. Good god was that awful, but it was all we had for a while. And that was sort of the de facto state of PC ports on console: clunky, subpar, compromised. Consider Starcraft on N64 (or don't, probably for the best). Conversely, console ports to PC were equally bad: Final Fantasy VII for PC (by Eidos, who would later be acquired by Squaresoft) was shiny but buggy. BUT there was always some appeal for both, be it the comfort of console gaming or the superior hardware of PC. Like or not, I think the two finally started to get along when Microsoft brought out a console of their own, and titles started to be made with both platforms in mind.

But even now, one tends to be overlooked for the other -- it took a fair bit of PC modding by players to make the console-aimed Elder Scrolls entry Skyrim feel anything like its PC forebears, which is frankly ridiculous.

As I said before, for me it's not about dumbing it down for a controller but figuring out how to make that limited number of buttons work for the game. No one in their right mind would say that FFXIV ARR is any simpler or 'dumber' than any other MMO out there, and many would argue it's more complex in some ways -- and I'm fairly sure it was made with a controller in mind.

There is a lot to be said for the tactile engagement of a controller over mouse and keyboard. This is something any gamer from the 80s or 90s can tell you. And of course it works more naturally for some genres over others. Run n Jump, whatever the hell that means (platformer?), fighting games, shmups, sports games...these were the bread and butter of console gaming while PC was exploring stuff like first person shooters, text driven adventure games and RPGs. In short, they played to their input strengths.

I see no point in playing PC games with a controller. I've tried it with a few titles, particularly a brief attempt at Phantasy Star Online (ugh), but I figure anything I want to play with a controller, I'm better off doing so with a system that uses a controller natively. Equally, I've never hooked up a mouse and keyboard to a console, although I know it can be done very easily. What I HAVE done is hook up a ps4 controller to my tablet because while touch screen is incredible for some gaming set ups, it's inadequate for console ports by and large. A desperate measure for a few ports that somehow run better on mobile than console. Go figure.

I mentioned Wolcen earlier, which I think would play very well on a controller. I would still use mouse and keyboard on PC but think it'd be a blast on controller on a console. Again, playing to strengths. And the first step towards that is PC controller support, excellent. Go for it. But PoE already HAS controller support on console, and while I find it crap, it exists as a console game. To then create PC controller support when mouse and keyboard are far superior does strike me as a waste of time and effort. Pardon the pun, but it's a little short-sighted to focus on controller support when your game doesn't even have a colorblind setting or other accessibility options. In 2022, that's really showing your hand imo.

But since PoE already exists as a game on console, I don't see controller functionality as a big issue regarding future design choices. GGG will almost certainly continue to develop with mouse and keyboard as the primary input method and the controller method will be an adaptation, a secondary option. It is premature and slightly paranoid to see this as the end of PoE's complexity and (beloved?) clunkiness.

FWIW I think PoE is an awful console ARPG and I'd be amazed if the player count is even a tiny fraction of the PC's. Even freaking Chaosbane feels better to play on console. PoE just doesn't suit a controller to begin with AND they haven't found a way to make it feel like it could.

What little we saw of PoE Mobile actually has a lot more potential in that regard -- it takes what seems to be the core of PoE and distils it down to a pure repetitive loop. Maybe PoE 4.0 will be more controller friendly?

I do savage raid content in FF XIV and in my party there are 1 dude and a young woman who are consistently 10% top percentile playing with a controller(thus doing better than a large portion of players using kb/mouse on one of the most played game at this time), and the content in terms of required attention and apms is imho supperior to PoE(PoE is more skilled game, more complex etc, but imho high end PVE in FF XIV and wow is more skill intensive than PoE at least for me). Not only you are to navigate 20-26 binds but you are bound to be extremly precise on inputs, yes GCD is low but there are lots of things to weave in in between, and ofc there is the basic control, movement and on the fly reaction to make during a meaningfull period of time(those are longs fights).

I don't think we can really look down on controllers anymore, there are controller gods. I really get op point tho, I'm a bit torned on the subject. I have games that I enjoy using a controller on Steam(like action based rogue likes or monster hunters), HOWEVER I would never consider a HnS game without kb + mouse + binds and I don't get it, tho maybe it can make sense if done properly for others. And as far as I'm concerned, even if I consider myself good with a controller(I'm ok+ at vs games for example), it would take me time to play FF XIV on one, and at my age(37), I don't know if I would make the switch swiftly.

thanks charan and galuf

maybe i have to play poe on controler to make a more reasonable judgement. but i don't own a console nor would i buy hardware i can't own. which means waiting for the controler support on pc.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

But since PoE already exists as a game on console, I don't see controller functionality as a big issue regarding future design choices. GGG will almost certainly continue to develop with mouse and keyboard as the primary input method and the controller method will be an adaptation, a secondary option. It is premature and slightly paranoid to see this as the end of PoE's complexity and (beloved?) clunkiness.

when they released their first console version, it didn't support all skills.
according to people i just asked, it changed and the console port does support all gems now cause otherwise controler support for pc wouldn't make sense.

but imho, ALL future skill design decisions for pc have to be controler aware now since they officially support that input method.

--

the good sides?

those "rsi plagued reddit pitchforkers" changing from pc to console would have meant a substantial income loss for ggg. them not changing means more players for the pc platform.

and in general, console integration brought us vulcan support, which is a huge step forward.
same with having the client engine support crappy console hardware, i guess people with pc toasters do profit from this as well.

so it's not all bad. change is good. and i didn't play other pc games for a awful long time cause bubble gum graphics and huuuge swords aren't doing it for me.

Controller aware is a really good way of putting it!

It is sheer naivete to be controller unaware if you want your game to go beyond PC -- and plenty of extremely successful games don't. But GGG went there and they went there completely unaware. I didn't know about the skill disabling since by the time I tried PoE on console it was in what I figure to be its final form.

Now re XIV, this raises another issue related to driver vs director. XIV has incredible zone placement demands, and it's much easier to leave a danger zone with direct controller input than a mouse click in my experience. And PoE is certainly leaning in that direction, albeit nowhere near as polished or satisfying in terms of precise zone placement. So there is, somewhere in PoE's current state, a game that would play as well if not better with a controller. Especially given the game can be a one skill affair rather than the insane levels of skill rotation in most MMOs. But that version of PoE cannot be extracted from all the rest, which is why I actually think PoE Mobile has the most potential to be a proper console PoE. Touch screen controls typically emulate controller features -- although there is at least one mobile ARPG that cleverly uses touch screen for its input (Eternium: swipes and simple shape drawing activate skills; the game isn't amazing but I wish a better ARPG would try it, given the MMOARPG Lost Ark has some geometric skill placement apparently). Anyway I may be the only Exile to think PoE mobile has more potential than PoE classic but there ya go.