waste of time

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RandallPOE wrote:

You forgot to mention the guy who lives rent free in your head.

I hope that was directed at me, I really do.

The irony is so delicious!

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I mean generally speaking all video games are a waste of time. That's sorta the point.

I think what you mean to say, which I would absolutely agree with, is that PoE no longer respects players time. Its seems to not be a consideration when reviewing their time played vs monetization algorithms.

Its pretty gross actually, the point where we have gotten to imo.

you get way more xp, items and currency per hour now than you did in 2020, or 2019, or 2018, or 2017... all the way back the opening release of the game. we can clear higher content faster and easier now compared to this same point in any previous year of the game.

so in what way does the game not respect our time any more? how did it respect our time before but not now? you get more stuffs from your time, in every possible way from currency to items to xp to content access.



youre just jaded, thats all thats happened, you personally have grown jaded and you have changed your criteria for judging things as a result.

Yeah, I don't think that's true. I mean, we're all influenced by our experiences, right. But I don't recall ever dying so much as I did this league. And it's not that I don't have defenses; it's that the game now requires more. It's not that it's giving you more options; it's that it's telling you that what was enough before is insufficient now. This spell suppression thing really caught me off guard...

I would say that it never respected our time a lot? But it's more evident now. As they keep adding layers of RNG to everything, there's less player control over how we spend our time in the game. And manipulating drops (making currency more scarse), didn't help: At one point, I didn't have any alchemy orbs to apply to maps.

YMMV, of course. But at least recognize that there are some of us that see things very differently.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I think trying to argue the game isnt massively bloated, is a fools errand. Its by far the worst it's ever been.

you didnt say the game was bloated, you said it didnt respect your time, these are 2 entirely different statements. of course the games bloated beyond all sense.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

The amount of time it takes to even get to the Atals progression, let alone Sirus and Maven is way beyond what it used to be

no its not, you can get to red maps as quick if not quicker than ever, you get more maps than ever, map sustain is easier than ever and you can spawn sirus and maven as much as you ever could. you have more access to all forms of content than this point in 2020, or 2019, or 2018... all the way back.


i personally do not have the patience for that grind that i once did, and i think the grind for the atlas needs work. im not arguing the balance is right or that it feels good for most people right now. but the fact is that everything you just mentioned is as easy or easier now than its ever been.

our want for some of these systems to be easier has grown faster than the game making them easier. but the game has made them easier. it took me a few months of playing 40 hours a week to hit lvl90 in open beta and the highest level map i ever found in 2 months of playing to get to 90 was a lvl75 map. 1 lvl75 map. when HvR got to lvl100 in 4 months the devs essentially accused his group of rmt cheating and buying lvl78 maps because for him to get to lvl100 in 4 months was about 8 months quicker than their predictions. it took him a couple of days this league.


the map tab is fucked in standard right now, u cant convert the maps. so i went and did some delving for a couple of days and i put the maps i found in my second map tab. i got from lvl97 to lvl99 in delve in a couple of days and i have something like 350 t16 (lvl83) maps in that second map tab from playing delve for maybe 2 days.

thats the difference between 2013 and 2021, and its been a steady slope of the game getting easier and easier and easier the whole way. thats the facts, we can say how we feel, that we dont feel rewarded, that we dont feel like the game respects our time in certain ways even. but we cant pretend something has changed for the worse in the game, that this is new, because what has changed is not at all that access to anything has got harder, its got easier by magnitudes every year consistently. right now the content access in scourge is insane, you can build breach stones and simus in a couple of scourged map runs, you can scourge maps where rare mbos are dropping like 4 maps each, people are looting 100 maps from a single map, its crazy.





the games massively bloated, so much stuff in this game needs revisited, streamlines, or completely redesigned. including the atlas.

you know what the next expansion is, i dont need to tell you theyre rewworking the entire idea of the atlas, you already know theyre working on that because they told us very clearly thats what they are working on.



remind me of another arpg thats redesigned its endgame system? i can think of 1, diablo 3, it took how long? 3 years? more? they redesigned it once to the grift system. super simple system, its fine, ish. diablo 3 has essentially had about as much content added since 2012 as poe has had every year. if this was blizzard telling us they were redesigning the entire endgame it would take them 3 years to finish it and put it in the game, and they would charge you for playing it. ggg have told us its gonna be 3 months, they will have it done. i dont really think theyre being unreasonable, us expecting more quicker is unreasonable.

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QuiquePoE wrote:

there's less player control over how we spend our time in the game

in what way?

Waste of time? That's totally subjective, totally up to the customer.

Game not respecting my time? How does that work? My entertainment time is 100% on me, so do I respect my time? That's my choice (a "me" problem).

Not sure how it's up to POE/GGG (or any other optional entertainment product) to respect me/my time, since that's on me. The experience is what they make it, up to me to accept or ignore/look elsewhere.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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QuiquePoE wrote:

there's less player control over how we spend our time in the game

in what way?

Because the more things there are tied to RNG and competing to show up, or drop, the less chances you have of what you want to actually show up or drop. The pools are too diluted and the game too bloated. You can, in the best of cases, influece for a bit of better chances. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I forgot to mention how they changed Zana missions to once again include timed missions (after they were removed because of complaints). So, we're back to not being able to stop to trade or even take a bathroom break or we fail them. How's that respecting the player's time?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I think trying to argue the game isnt massively bloated, is a fools errand. Its by far the worst it's ever been.

you didnt say the game was bloated, you said it didnt respect your time, these are 2 entirely different statements. of course the games bloated beyond all sense.

Isnt this total semantics? The bloated portions of the game require and additional time investment from the player. At a minimum for key crafting elements.

Also the amount of players that reach 100 or even 98 is MINUSCULE. I would say that the time to reach 100 being quicker is completely irrelevant to 99.9% of players. The 40 challenge 100lvl players are very much outliers.

Getting through all the acts and to red maps might be "easier" due to skill bloat, but it's not necessarily quicker. The data shows it.

Everyone burns out eventually. I bet that half the people complaining daily are just burned out. It's OK to move on, it's OK to play something else, it's even OK to take a break from gaming for a while.

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QuiquePoE wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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QuiquePoE wrote:

there's less player control over how we spend our time in the game

in what way?

Because the more things there are tied to RNG and competing to show up, or drop, the less chances you have of what you want to actually show up or drop. The pools are too diluted and the game too bloated. You can, in the best of cases, influece for a bit of better chances. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

but what control did you have over how you spend your time that has now been made more rng based and out of your control?

id argue on overall balance you probably have as much control of what content you are playing as you have ever had, plyer agency is probably at peak values.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Isnt this total semantics? The bloated portions of the game require and additional time investment from the player. At a minimum for key crafting elements.

i dont agree, i dont think bloat = the game not respecting your time necessarily. the vast majority of bloat is optional, and its stuff we didnt have before. if you look at what we had, we get everything we had before faster and easier, and now theres more stuff you CAN do on top, virtually none of it is required, its all just there as extra stuff if you want to engage with it.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Also the amount of players that reach 100 or even 98 is MINUSCULE. I would say that the time to reach 100 being quicker is completely irrelevant to 99.9% of players. The 40 challenge 100lvl players are very much outliers.

its relevent because the people who are reaching 94 were the people hard stuck at 90 4 years ago and would not have made it past about lvl60 back in 2013. those outliers are only that in terms of how far they get compared to other people, not in terms of how much further and faster they climb now compared to back then. in that sense they are a fair representation of the insane creep in levelling speeds and content access.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Getting through all the acts and to red maps might be "easier" due to skill bloat, but it's not necessarily quicker. The data shows it.

getting to red maps is massively quicker if you care to push for them.

the reason this game has had way more players this year than any year before, and the same for the year before that etc is because its more accessible. the kind of people getting to yellow maps now on their own would have been stuck in act2 cruel back in 2013 looking around the public party board preying for someone to carry them through the oak fight.

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lupasvasile wrote:

Everyone burns out eventually. I bet that half the people complaining daily are just burned out. It's OK to move on, it's OK to play something else, it's even OK to take a break from gaming for a while.

pretty much this, for sure man.




the game has massive issues, all games do. poe needs to sort its issues, but it takes time and it takes real feedback, honest, focused, not just a scatter gun of bile grasping for any sort of negative attack within reach.

we need to tell the devs where its going wrong, and respect that it takes time to fix, and that maybe we dont see the full picture, maybe what we want is wrong for the game. we have to be open to that possibility. we have to respect them as people and as professionals. these are our people, we love this game right? thats why we are here, if you dont love this game then why are people in these forums every day talking about it? if you are here of course this game is special to you, these people made this special game. lets work together, they want to be our friends, they want us to love the game, they want the game to succeed. we should too, otherwise why are we bothering posting here at all?


were all human beings and deep down, every single one of us just wants to be loved and respected, even if were too messed up to realise it. no one turns up to work 5 days a week for 8 years and doesnt want people to enjoy the product of that work.


if were too burned out to engage in that sort of dialogue then look, lupasvasile is right, take a break man. ive been there, many times, and some of those times i stayed here bitching when i should have just left. over the last 4 years or so when im burned out you dont see me here, i disappear for 6 months at a time, im doing other things. if i dont have anything good to say about this game im not gonna waste my time playing it or being here talking about it.


and every time i come back the games much better, because im hungry for it again. its as much me as it is the game.