Just want to say congrats to PoE devs. 3rd best ARPG ever made.

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Garfunkel wrote:

I don't see the point of grinding there. Grinding so I could do Baal/Meph runs faster? meh

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CAKE wrote:

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Garfunkel wrote:

I don't see the point of grinding there. Grinding so I could do Baal/Meph runs faster? meh

I do think that D2 without mods does not have as various endgame as poe but you can reduce everything to this.
Grinding in poe? For what just for numbers to go up? I see no point!!!!
Just to kill t9 sirus in 3seconds instead of 2.95?
Just to clear map 5% quicker because of HH?
For path of building to say i have 55mil instead of 44.95mil dps?


With that attitude why do you even play games. Imagine being like "mountain climbing sucks, you just go up the mountain and that is it" bruhhhh...
yes this is called living you do some simple things like eating, drinking, entertaining yourself, pooping and then you die.

Any activity that you do can be reduced to some simple sounding objective.
I fail to see the issue with that.

What are you doing in poe that is so much more honorable than the d2 grinding, saving us from global warming, feeding homeless people, gaining trust from aliens to better our intergalactic relationships? I doubt so, you upgrade items to go slightly more brrrrrrr with hopes for less deaths. You know, the exact thing you do in every arpg.

I wish for future games to at least make player skill important in future arpg games, you know the counter strike competitive juice mixed with arpg progression. dark souls is not that at all, it is way too slow and easily exploitable, worst of all it is console game that has painful camera. I'm talking more like Hotline Miami but with gear progression.
You can go zoom-zoom quick in hotline miami but single mistake=u ded.

I've actually played something close to that (realm of the mad god) bullet hell mmorpg and it was fanstastic, but it is ancient and my eyes hurt from looking at those graphics, still i've played that for like 800hours

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Exile009 wrote:

Lol! The number of limitations D2R has will be evident to people in no time, since it doesn't include or allow for Median or any of the other mods that kept D2 alive for so long. Give it some months and D2R will have subsided into little more than a flash in the pan. ARPG's - not just PoE but all of its competitors as well - have long since moved on and improved upon the outdated D2 model. They've taken inspiration from it sure, but they've also superseded it. Hell, D2R even still has that laughable stamina bar - something even the original devs themselves called idiotic and no future ARPG's, not even its successor Diablo 3 or heavily D2-inspired PoE, bothered to copy over from it. That's how faithful, and simultaneously out of date, D2R is. And that's just for starters...

P.S.:- Yes, I know you can nullify it by using stamina potions - citing that is just being nitpicky and missing the point. And also ironically, D2's potion system itself is yet another case of being outmoded. I roll my eyes everytime I see one of the streamers of the game filling their inventories with potions each time they return to town. And Teleport spam or other methods to nullify it similarly miss the point - its very existence is silly to begin with.

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TheAshmaker wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

Lol! The number of limitations D2R has will be evident to people in no time, since it doesn't include or allow for Median or any of the other mods that kept D2 alive for so long. Give it some months and D2R will have subsided into little more than a flash in the pan. ARPG's - not just PoE but all of its competitors as well - have long since moved on and improved upon the outdated D2 model. They've taken inspiration from it sure, but they've also superseded it. Hell, D2R even still has that laughable stamina bar - something even the original devs themselves called idiotic and no future ARPG's, not even its successor Diablo 3 or heavily D2-inspired PoE, bothered to copy over from it. That's how faithful, and simultaneously out of date, D2R is. And that's just for starters...

P.S.:- Yes, I know you can nullify it by using stamina potions - citing that is just being nitpicky and missing the point. And also ironically, D2's potion system itself is yet another case of being outmoded. I roll my eyes everytime I see one of the streamers of the game filling their inventories with potions each time they return to town. And Teleport spam or other methods to nullify it similarly miss the point - its very existence is silly to begin with.

Quite the opposite actually. D2R reminded me of why its still the best ARPG. PoE once captured that essence but definitely not lately.

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Exile009 wrote:

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CAKE wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

Lol! The number of limitations D2R has will be evident to people in no time, since it doesn't include or allow for Median or any of the other mods that kept D2 alive for so long. Give it some months and D2R will have subsided into little more than a flash in the pan. ARPG's - not just PoE but all of its competitors as well - have long since moved on and improved upon the outdated D2 model. They've taken inspiration from it sure, but they've also superseded it. Hell, D2R even still has that laughable stamina bar - something even the original devs themselves called idiotic and no future ARPG's, not even its successor Diablo 3 or heavily D2-inspired PoE, bothered to copy over from it. That's how faithful, and simultaneously out of date, D2R is. And that's just for starters...

P.S.:- Yes, I know you can nullify it by using stamina potions - citing that is just being nitpicky and missing the point. And also ironically, D2's potion system itself is yet another case of being outmoded. I roll my eyes everytime I see one of the streamers of the game filling their inventories with potions each time they return to town. And Teleport spam or other methods to nullify it similarly miss the point - its very existence is silly to begin with.

Even with those downsides d2 is way more fun, and https://www.median-xl.com/
completely solves the lack of endless endgame by adding lots crafting, new items and end-game zones(basically map system). D2 also does not crash the moment you invite some minion build or quick CoC, so you can actually enjoy it with friends.

I hate blizzard so i just hope next patches for PoE will bring us back to fun track. But damn, for game that is 20years old with single dlc D2 is divine product. Imagine PoE just with first league... it would be dead after 2 years tops.

Methinks you need to re-read, as I was talking about D2R, not D2 + mods. Indeed part of the point was that D2R doesn't have mods, leaving it barren and clunky. PoE was already better than that even in its early days, 'cept for the issues arising from having an always online requirement with less than stellar server performance. D2R is a graphically updated version of classic D2, going up against far more evolved and refined successors. Even besides PoE - I'd take Grim Dawn over classic D2, ditto Last Epoch, Lost Ark or even Warhammer Inquisitor. Classic D2 is just plain outdated and annoying, improved upon in all these games in many ways. Cute little nostalgia trip, but nothing more.

As for PoE with just its first league being dead in 2 years, that depends on how it developed. Unlike D2, PoE is a developer dependent game because it's not moddable, but that also means the comparison is unfair. Instead let's imagine PoE with just its first league but ALSO it being offline and moddable (as D2 was). In that case, I don't think PoE would be dead in 2 years, on the contrary it's best times would be 2 years later and I can easily see it superseding Diablo again in such a situation. In other words, PoE's base was already superior to classic D2, and so further developments on that base (be it by the developers or by modders) would invariably make it a superior game.

Not to mention that PoE's first league would probably have been a full fledged expansion pack (like LoD was for D2) if it had been designed this way (look at the Ashes of Malmouth expansion for Grim Dawn for some idea of what it might have looked like). PoE's leagues are tiny compared to Lord of Destruction precisely because the game isn't developed around the expansion pack model. So in reality the comparison would be PoE + Ashes of Malmouth-like expansion pack + mods versus D2 + Lord of Destruction + mods. And I'd take PoE in that case, as the base is better. And D2R is even worse - D2R is D2 + LoD MINUS mods.

And to clarify, by "classic D2" I mean D2 + Lord of Destruction, but without any of its many mods.