Can we get rid of damage reflect on map affix pool already?

Okay, as the title says, isnt it about time we get rid of those pointless mods already?

I expect the white knights that protect GGG from every criticysm and the mob of "elite gamers" to come flocking with the "gut gud noob" and "u just want to make the game easier cause you cant handle it, scrub" but for those i ask: Do any of you gud gamers even actually HANDLE the mod? As is: Do you actually enter and play a map with a character that actually is affected by the mod rather than stashing the map for another character that is naturally not affected by it(read-duck and fleeing from the mod)?

I salute the ones that equip sibyl, and to the others: Get out of your high horse

See thats the big problem from this particular pair of mods: We dont ever challenge them. They dont really make the game any harder because for each one of them there are about half of the possible builds on the build pool that can skip them completely and we rely on that to bypass the mod. The counterplay to this particular pair of mods is to bypass them with a character where the mods migh as well not even be there

And thing is, we dont ever challenge them because... well they are pretty much unbeteable, except for a very few select circunstances like zombies on phys reflect, there is no way for a character that is actually affected by the mod to have any chance at all in completing a map with damage reflect

It is an extreme case of heaven or hell, either the map is impossible or the mod is just extra rarity and quantity with zero drawback. And unless you are a one-character kinda player, its not even worth equip sibyl to counter it, trully countering damage reflect is just too big of a investment for an overly specific situation unlike, say, wear shaper rings for curse immunity that can be helpfull beyond a set of map mods

Dear GGG: Other mods are legit because we actually enter maps with a character that actually have to deal with those mods, even if its something that can be granted immunity against, its still either not game-breakers or not overly specific stuff that is actually worth to include in the build. Damage reflect are instant deal-breakers, where the only workaround is a otherwise completely useless unique. When the almost unanimous response is to not bother at all and just duck from it, isnt it a clear sign that the mechanic just plain suc*???(that statement can also go for the maven memory game, btw, but thats another story)

Its about damn time that mod to just go

"

feike wrote:

Dear GGG: Other mods are legit because we actually enter maps with a character that actually have to deal with those mods

Let me introduce you to ignite builds on avoid ailment maps, %based recovery builds on less recovery maps or self-damage builds on -max maps.
These setups do not have counters unless your build has a very niche option.

"

feike wrote:

where the only workaround is a otherwise completely useless unique.

Or on rare rings, rare body armours, a pantheon, sextants and since you mentioned zombies and physical reflect you can just convert their damage to ele/chaos by using Triad Grip.



But yeah, white-knights.

"

Scarletsword wrote:

"

feike wrote:

Dear GGG: Other mods are legit because we actually enter maps with a character that actually have to deal with those mods

Let me introduce you to ignite builds on avoid ailment maps, %based recovery builds on less recovery maps or self-damage builds on -max maps.
These setups do not have counters unless your build has a very niche option.

"

feike wrote:

where the only workaround is a otherwise completely useless unique.

Or on rare rings, rare body armours, a pantheon, sextants and since you mentioned zombies and physical reflect you can just convert their damage to ele/chaos by using Triad Grip.



But yeah, white-knights.

Yeah, super specific builds that are countered by mods that have no effect watsoever on a good 99% of the build pool vs two mods that completely jail almost 50% of the builds each, yup completely same situation

And 2 rings or armors with reflect immunity without nerfing your build is something anyone can afford... o wait, nobody ever bother because, again, too specific stituation for a influenced mod than are hard even to buy because almost nobody keep those mods, they rerrol into something people look for

And ofc, everyone ALWAYS bypass reflect mods by burning a sextant, its super normal to spend currency to bypass the mod and not have an actual usefull mod when you spend sextants

And did you actually suggested to use the pantheon without the remaining 80% and complete the map?

And you dont need triple triad, zombies can clear reflect mod just fine as long as you dont trigger a league mechanic


Try again whyte knight

@feike: don't speak for everyone like you know what EVERYONE is doing. A huge percentage of the players with at least 2 leagues under their belt regularly run reflect maps with sextants, gear swaps, or other means.

Scarlet's point is that any build can complain about that ONE map mod that completely derails it, it is NOT unique to reflect. YOU can't be bothered to take advantage of the tons of ways around reflect, don't hoist your own problems onto other people.

If anyone should be complaining, it should be those other builds that have NO workaround! Reflect is super easy to deal with and GGG has only introduced MORE ways to deal with reflect without gimping your build.

Let's talk about no-regen, which effects FAR MORE builds than reflect does. GGG has only ever nerfed the ways around no-regen.

Avoiding and changing gear in order to run a map mod IS running the mod! You don't need to "be affected by the mod" to be considered dealing with it. Avoidance is literally one of the biggest mechanics in PoE both in terms of mods and defenses

So in your mind nobody plays mana based builds, ignite builds (league start meta auf 3.14 with burning arrow, yep), dodge (dodge unlucky map mod), poison/bleed.

Also:

- You can buy a reduced reflect ring for 5c with a T1 roll and high life in the current state of the league:
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Expedition/pb8v42df0

- Chances are your build doesn't even benefit from the prefix it's taking up since rings do not have that many good prefixes for most builds.

- Equipping it is less of a damage loss than rolling ele res or reduced pyhsical or reduced damage from crits on your maps.

- The common strategy for sextants is to roll your maps in bulk and save up the reflect ones while doing the same with your sextants/watchstones but that requires you to play the game instead of complaining.
Also the sextant adds rare monsters which pairs nicely with Nemesis3 and a lot of other stuff.

So how about you get some basic game knowledge and a proper build?

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

@feike: don't speak for everyone like you know what EVERYONE is doing. A huge percentage of the players with at least 2 leagues under their belt regularly run reflect maps with sextants, gear swaps, or other means.

Scarlet's point is that any build can complain about that ONE map mod that completely derails it, it is NOT unique to reflect. YOU can't be bothered to take advantage of the tons of ways around reflect, don't hoist your own problems onto other people.

If anyone should be complaining, it should be those other builds that have NO workaround! Reflect is super easy to deal with and GGG has only introduced MORE ways to deal with reflect without gimping your build.

Let's talk about no-regen, which effects FAR MORE builds than reflect does. GGG has only ever nerfed the ways around no-regen.

Protip: Just cause i decided to skip this league, dont mean i dont have more than 2 leagues, you kno... i mostly go for craft leagues

And my point stands: No map mod blocks nearly as many builds as reflect does

Also part of my point: do YOU go around it by buyng warlord armor? I seriously doubt it, the price of the mod speaks for itself, its considered pretty much a dead mod on the market wich informs me that almost nobody goes for that route(and again, why would you bother? Its simpler to dodge the mod completely, in a scale no other mod does nearly as much)
And sorry, but entering a map with reflect coutered by a sextant is just bull. When you go for sextants you want to stack the effects and keeping a mod like that is just a no. Even if you roll it by chance its still extremely unlikely youll take it as cue to use those reflect maps you keep on stash just for that(really who does that????)

You know why so many mods block specific builds but you dont ever see the build users complaining about those? Its because they know their build is a small fraction that are hard blocked by those. Also, the majority of the builds actually play against those mods. -max resist is likely the second king of build block, but we dont complain about these because we really do face those mods, we enter -max resists maps on a regular basis and face the extra dificulty imposed. -max resist DOES MAKE THE GAME HARDER, reflect mods you just dodge or ignore

"

Scarletsword wrote:

So in your mind nobody plays mana based builds, ignite builds (league start meta auf 3.14 with burning arrow, yep), dodge (dodge unlucky map mod), poison/bleed.

Also:

- You can buy a reduced reflect ring for 5c with a T1 roll and high life in the current state of the league:
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Expedition/pb8v42df0

- Chances are your build doesn't even benefit from the prefix it's taking up since rings do not have that many good prefixes for most builds.

- Equipping it is less of a damage loss than rolling ele res or reduced pyhsical or reduced damage from crits on your maps.

- The common strategy for sextants is to roll your maps in bulk and save up the reflect ones while doing the same with your sextants/watchstones but that requires you to play the game instead of complaining.
Also the sextant adds rare monsters which pairs nicely with Nemesis3 and a lot of other stuff.

So how about you get some basic game knowledge and a proper build?

Dont come with that specific build crap, -max resist and no regen dont block nearly as many builds as reflect does and you know it

Also, i didnt said aquiring gear is expensive, i said its not pratical. How many players bother with a pair of reflect imunity(with a single random t1 roll, yeah those are indeed less than 1c). Its just too much of a specific situation to bother to consider when planning a build or buing stuff. We all equip elemental resist because it helps on every map, many equip shaper rings because it helps on any monster. Reflect immunity requires 2 rings or a warlord armor just for a mod you can skip changing character

And keeping maps separated just to run with the sextant? Nah, ofc you want the extra packs but bothering with making this kind of preparation is something i can think of no player ever doing: Mix-maxers will want to sort by max quantity/quality on the beyond mod, new players wont rotate watchstones

wasn't commenting on your amount of playtime, I was merely commenting that ANY player with at least 2 leagues knows how to deal with reflect AND DOES deal with reflect.

Again, most of your most recent post is just plain false information and wrong. Last league the MOST played build was burning arrow or other sources of ignite. Most leagues, especially at the start, heavily involve chaos dot builds.

and YES, tons and tons of players who don't want to waste sextants have a reflect setup in their stash with ring/armor mods apart from Sibyl, just like a gem swap for certain content. YOU don't, but that is not indicative of the majority/minority/any% of players.

It is an extremely common strategy to alch/corrupt tons of maps at once, gain a collection of reflect maps, roll a sextant, and run those maps. Not everyone juices the 100% max every single time they juice. In fact, that is probably the bare minimum of players who actually min/max the actual content in that way.

Your comment on price is laughably wrong. When supply and demand are in a good place, prices are LOW. This does not indicate something is a "dead mod". Prices are high on things because there is a demand, but it is rare. All the lower prices mean is that it is desirable (above 1 alch), but common.

AND you continue to say "we all" when speaking about only yourself.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

wasn't commenting on your amount of playtime, I was merely commenting that ANY player with at least 2 leagues knows how to deal with reflect AND DOES deal with reflect.

Again, most of your most recent post is just plain false information and wrong. Last league the MOST played build was burning arrow or other sources of ignite. Most leagues, especially at the start, heavily involve chaos dot builds.

and YES, tons and tons of players who don't want to waste sextants have a reflect setup in their stash with ring/armor mods apart from Sibyl, just like a gem swap for certain content. YOU don't, but that is not indicative of the majority/minority/any% of players.

It is an extremely common strategy to alch/corrupt tons of maps at once, gain a collection of reflect maps, roll a sextant, and run those maps. Not everyone juices the 100% max every single time they juice. In fact, that is probably the bare minimum of players who actually min/max the actual content in that way.

Your comment on price is laughably wrong. When supply and demand are in a good place, prices are LOW. This does not indicate something is a "dead mod". Prices are high on things because there is a demand, but it is rare. All the lower prices mean is that it is desirable (above 1 alch), but common.

AND you continue to say "we all" when speaking about only yourself.

A build being the most played translates to no more than 10% of the characters, this league poe ninja says spectral shield is the most used skill and it sits at 13%, 13% is quite high, but even if we consider a mod can block 13% of the characters out, it still dont get to reflect levels

And i know how to deal with reflect, ofc i do deal with it... its in the game, we all have to deal with it or get out

And the comment about price is not that is low or high, the thing is the mod dont change the price of the item up, and thats the thing: When the mod is valuable and people are using it, having the mod, esp an influenced mod, should make the item more valuable, but damage reflect just... dont... an armor with reflect tends to have a similar price to a similar armor with no reflect and decent(10-ish ex) armors with reflect are not quite common because crafters dont want to keep the mod(there are a grand total of 50-ish armors with the mod above 10exa https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Expedition/Pw6Y3jgHL a rather michroscophic amount), people just dont look for the mod, hence, the mod have low value. Granted, it CAN be expensive, but mostly at double-influenced itens, its just top luxury. YEah its nice to have(hence above 1alch), but the vast majority dont bother(hence why also not expensive)

Ill take the point about separating the reflect maps tho, i find stashing it on a separate slot a huge pain in the behind, but if people do it, okay, point taken

if you can't do a map cause you bricked it for your build while rolling it: SELL IT.

if you look for a certain map type you can do: BUY IT.

where is the problem again? :)