ADHD protection for alteration and chaos spam

not so sure about it...

@kaepae: that's not really how botting in games works. If you have to code the bot to do more small functions, its much harder to hide and therefore much harder to use. But if the game allows you to perform 800 functions in a single click, botting therefore becomes much easier and more appealing.

Think about it this way: anything that can speed up an actual human, will speed up a bot multiple x more. It ALWAYS works this way. It's false to think that more automation will favor the human/player in any situation.

+1

I don't care about bots. I just care about my hands.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

@kaepae: that's not really how botting in games works. If you have to code the bot to do more small functions, its much harder to hide and therefore much harder to use. But if the game allows you to perform 800 functions in a single click, botting therefore becomes much easier and more appealing.
Think about it this way: anything that can speed up an actual human, will speed up a bot multiple x more. It ALWAYS works this way. It's false to think that more automation will favor the human/player in any situation.

I don't think it will make bots produce T1 items easily, because looting currency spend much more time than rolling items affixes for bots.

Bots can do hundreds of clicks in 1 min. They loot 1 hour, but only need 1 min to perform rolling affixes. Now you reduce 1 min to some sec, it still needs 1 hour to loot. So it doesn't change anything.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

@kaepae: that's not really how botting in games works. If you have to code the bot to do more small functions, its much harder to hide and therefore much harder to use. But if the game allows you to perform 800 functions in a single click, botting therefore becomes much easier and more appealing.

Think about it this way: anything that can speed up an actual human, will speed up a bot multiple x more. It ALWAYS works this way. It's false to think that more automation will favor the human/player in any situation.

No. If one would simply loop up the action without further concern one would make the bot very obvious. One will always have to mimic a form of human behaviour, with slight RNG, delays, some misclicks, etc.

One trick is to record ones own natural behavior and mimic it (prevent patterns!) some. While it is hard to perfectly mimic - it is not that hard to create reasonable doubt for the other side.

It's more of a challenge to hook in properly and make sure the application receives _all_ proper events - instead of using some straightforward callback. For example, events can come from a (custom) device driver instead of being pushed in through some window hook.

I'm not saying writing the bot is easy - but once it is refined enough the bot will win. I don't know what types of bots are used out there for PoE - if everyone uses a bot that shows the same mistake it becomes recognizable and it can be battled across the field.

If all botting was easy to recognize - we'd probably be free of bots.


I could be wrong. I've only written a few in my life and they weren't that good (and it was quite a long time ago). GGG could be masterful in the detection. I know for a fact Blizzard was not :-), even though they put quite some effort in their warden.


Suppose we have different views there.

edit: and ofc. don't scale a single bot 'identity', that would make it easy to recognize.

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smtad wrote:

I don't think it will make bots produce T1 items easily, because looting currency spend much more time than rolling items affixes for bots.

Bots can do hundreds of clicks in 1 min. They loot 1 hour, but only need 1 min to perform rolling affixes. Now you reduce 1 min to some sec, it still needs 1 hour to loot. So it doesn't change anything.

Assuming the bot uses only its own looted resources and is not provided the bulk resources in other ways (trading). One may have heard of currency flipping and encountered a few bots that do this in PoE.

@kaepae: I'm not sure you realize that you pulled a complete 180 from your original post about narrowing the gap between bot and player, saying "no" to my post but then agreeing with me in your description...but maybe you were only focusing on the first sentence about creating the bot.

As someone who has written and used bots in many older games (not PoE), I can say with 100% certainty that ANY change in game which makes things easier for the player, no matter what, makes things easier for a botter at least to the same degree, but generally at a higher/faster degree. In a game like PoE where there are no limits on Trades/hr, currency/hr, crafts/hr etc., any change that affects any process in the gameplay can and will be abused by bots.

@smtad: it is false to say the bot still needs the same amount of time to loot. Don't forget that there can be different bots for different functions. Trade bots, currency flip bots, gameplay bots, farming bots, etc. They all work in tandem to create a bot "farm" that rmt and exploitative organizations can set up. Chipping away even 1 second from 1 part of the whole process can be multiplied 100s or 1000s of times over by bots whereas a player is only 1 person.

Easier player experience = easier botting = further disparity. There are really only two overarching fixes to this:
1) Game Security: I have no knowledge of this, but this would be something implemented by GGG to detect and remove bots faster.
2) Produce in-game limitations denoted by time. This would KILL the game, but it is definitely an effective tool against botting. If you are only allowed to make 1 trade per 5m, or sell to x amount of players per hour, THIS is what would level the playing field between players and bots.

But ease of access in-game is NEVER a good approach to combat botting.

If time spent crafting is an issue why not just implement a timer based on the amount of currency you want to use so you can minimize clicks without blowing up some of the other issues here

like just scale it to where you can click manually and potentially hit the mod you want faster, or you can plug in a bunch of currency at once to cut down on clicks but end up with a longer wait

personally I'd really like something like this. I don't have ADHD but I do have a pretty bad sports injury in my dominant hand that puts me at higher risk of RSI, so I'd welcome anything that can cut down on the amount of clicking we have to do with open arms