Regarding "carry services"

This topic might be very controversial but i am surprised why carry services are not discussed much in the forums or is it a taboo?
Streamers also seems to take pride when they say, "I do carry services".

What I understand is, if you managed to get your hands on some good currencies, you can pay for carry services to level in pure breachstone runs and leveled carefree without the worry of dying.

Some even get to level 100 this way, if you have tens of exalts to spare.
I mean if the game pride itself for achieving level 100, this seems to be something that needs to be addressed, or no?
Or the game culture is that, it is OK if players are able to get currencies, and they are "entitled" to plain sailing leveling.
Noobs just have to grind your way in maps and suffer xp lost every now and then.

I also read in forums that, if you are trying to level up by mapping, you are doing it wrong.

* Just in case my understanding is wrong, carry service goes like
- Player with high dps organized pure breachstone runs.
Collect currencies from 5 other players and take all loots.
- 5 other players just tag along, leech xp and get few levels (even at 90+) very quickly.

Play SSF?

this is a feature of basically ALL leveling games. If you are willing and able to take the shortcut, there will be a market for providing the shortcut.

Same can be said for: craft service, lab service, boss service, trade in general. It's all just a market of shortcuts. Necessary and classic feature of multiplayer rpgs.

In terms of rotas/carrying, the one thing you have wrong is that typically loot is permanent allocation which means if you are able to kill you ALSO get to loot your own stuff. Most rotas also avoid the boss so the loot isn't really anything to run home about.

Leveling in maps isn't "wrong", it's just not the most efficient. I have NEVER done a rota and always level on my own to level 95. It is comfortable and fast enough to do just straight from maps.

"

hsuchijp wrote:

This topic might be very controversial but i am surprised why carry services are not discussed much in the forums or is it a taboo?
Streamers also seems to take pride when they say, "I do carry services".

What I understand is, if you managed to get your hands on some good currencies, you can pay for carry services to level in pure breachstone runs and leveled carefree without the worry of dying.

Some even get to level 100 this way, if you have tens of exalts to spare.
I mean if the game pride itself for achieving level 100, this seems to be something that needs to be addressed, or no?
Or the game culture is that, it is OK if players are able to get currencies, and they are "entitled" to plain sailing leveling.
Noobs just have to grind your way in maps and suffer xp lost every now and then.

I also read in forums that, if you are trying to level up by mapping, you are doing it wrong.

* Just in case my understanding is wrong, carry service goes like
- Player with high dps organized pure breachstone runs.
Collect currencies from 5 other players and take all loots.
- 5 other players just tag along, leech xp and get few levels (even at 90+) very quickly.

It is completely ignored, rather GGG just make it more difficult and harder to level as "it becomes to easy to reach 100, instead of fixing the root causes" as long the 10% can keep selling there services to the sheep.

"

hsuchijp wrote:

This topic might be very controversial but i am surprised why carry services are not discussed much in the forums or is it a taboo?

How do you actually propose they do it?

PoE is a multiplayer game where you can party up with anyone. Do you like to change that? How? Is it even possible, without removing some parts of the multiplayer experience?

Personally, I don't like carry services. I think they are stupid, especially boss services. If I'm not good enough to beat a boss, I have something to work towards. A goal. And in my eyes, goals are the bread and butter of games like this. Paying someone to "play the game for you" isn't "playing the game" in my eyes.

That said, we are all different. My way of playing isn't the 'blueprint' of how the game should be played. I don't really care that Jimmy pays Tom 100 exalts to beat every boss in the game for him, removing every sense of accomplishment. Do I think it's stupid? Sure. Does it affect me? Not really.

But it all boils down to "how". And I'm struggling here. I can't think of a single solution that wouldn't restrict party play or trade in some way or another.

"

Phrazz wrote:

But it all boils down to "how". And I'm struggling here. I can't think of a single solution that wouldn't restrict party play or trade in some way or another.

you just set the player level fixed to the one of the lowest player in your party. and disable the choice to enable/disable party level scaling.

Well thats not an issue with carry service but rather with Beachheads or Chayula rotations providing too much XP and heavily shortcutting the way to lvl 100.

I did lvl 100 in a time where there was no Beachhead or Chayula and i tell you the builds today in Softcore league that reach level 100 would simply not reach 100 back in the days. Because they are usually 4-5k life garbage zero defense that use those carry services.

Mapping the normal way during lvl 99 and dying only once among the hundreds of maps will make you feel the xp loss brutally. And builds that die often on average will never reach 100 the normal way due to XP penalty.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

hsuchijp wrote:

This topic might be very controversial but i am surprised why carry services are not discussed much in the forums or is it a taboo?

How do you actually propose they do it?

PoE is a multiplayer game where you can party up with anyone. Do you like to change that? How? Is it even possible, without removing some parts of the multiplayer experience?

Personally, I don't like carry services. I think they are stupid, especially boss services. If I'm not good enough to beat a boss, I have something to work towards. A goal. And in my eyes, goals are the bread and butter of games like this. Paying someone to "play the game for you" isn't "playing the game" in my eyes.

That said, we are all different. My way of playing isn't the 'blueprint' of how the game should be played. I don't really care that Jimmy pays Tom 100 exalts to beat every boss in the game for him, removing every sense of accomplishment. Do I think it's stupid? Sure. Does it affect me? Not really.

But it all boils down to "how". And I'm struggling here. I can't think of a single solution that wouldn't restrict party play or trade in some way or another.

Of course I have nothing against party plays since it is after all a multiplayer game. And I do agree with the points you made and respect your mindset.

The games I have played, every player always have a role to do, healer, defender (to taunt boss), dps (mage or hunter), the classic type of MMORPG. If you are not fulfilling your role, you can get kicked out of party. And to achieve high level, you need to grind and work for it.

But my point here is, if someone can just tag along wearing a tabula and reached lv100, while another player tries to do so in mapping, constantly improving on his gear and so on but get setback and frustrated by xp lost, the situation resembles "rich guy paying his way into a prestigious university while poor guy lost his chance for entry (in the ladder)".
Granted the tabula guy may have worked hard in other ways accumulating currencies as tribute to even bigger warlords.

But well, if I want to check a solid build, I would definitely look up the lv100 char in HCSSF as he/she has my trust for achieving it. Of course some lv100 and high level characters in softcore made it without subscribing to such services, but their recognition is somewhat smeared (not that they or i care).
But i do hope GGG will somehow recognize this fact, and perhaps reward players mapping in a better way.
Reviewing the current xp penalty in softcore or xp gained in breachstones and so on may also be one way. But again these are sensitive topics, and judging from past posts there are people that will defend the current -10% to their graves.

The usual, "build your defenses", "xp penalty is fine", "game is too easy", "game not for casuals", "boss attacks are perfectly telegraphed", "you don't need the last few skill points" and what have you.

"

zzang wrote:

Well thats not an issue with carry service but rather with Beachheads or Chayula rotations providing too much XP and heavily shortcutting the way to lvl 100.

I did lvl 100 in a time where there was no Beachhead or Chayula and i tell you the builds today in Softcore league that reach level 100 would simply not reach 100 back in the days. Because they are usually 4-5k life garbage zero defense that use those carry services.

Mapping the normal way during lvl 99 and dying only once among the hundreds of maps will make you feel the xp loss brutally. And builds that die often on average will never reach 100 the normal way due to XP penalty.

My friend was like lv88 and hit 95 the next day.
I just heard the xp and leveling is still good even beyond 96 in these services.

Usually I start to feel some struggle from lv88-90.
Lv91-93 progress is slow and getting to lv95 is usually frustrating.
But i have learnt to just ignore every single potential dangerous mechanics (metamorph, legion, even harvest) or mods, just do easy maps/mods and grind like 100-200 to get 1 level.
Definitely not the best way to play/enjoy the game.
But it is what it is.

I cannot imagine the shock people have when they die at lv99.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

this is a feature of basically ALL leveling games. If you are willing and able to take the shortcut, there will be a market for providing the shortcut.

Same can be said for: craft service, lab service, boss service, trade in general. It's all just a market of shortcuts. Necessary and classic feature of multiplayer rpgs.

In terms of rotas/carrying, the one thing you have wrong is that typically loot is permanent allocation which means if you are able to kill you ALSO get to loot your own stuff. Most rotas also avoid the boss so the loot isn't really anything to run home about.

Leveling in maps isn't "wrong", it's just not the most efficient. I have NEVER done a rota and always level on my own to level 95. It is comfortable and fast enough to do just straight from maps.

Am completely intrigued by the lab and craft services.
While it is nice to have someone kill Izaro, you still have to go through the traps yourself. Worse still, i imagine these providers are blazingly fast and if you can't keep up, won't they just take your money and dump you? i rather be slow as snail but do it at my own pace.

Craft services is like giving your gold bars to a complete stranger and have him engrave your name on it.