The Nature of Forum Discussion - A Look Into The Mirror

So I've recently made a few posts on here, 2 of which were genuine but then 1 of which made for an interesting test. Here they are -

How to Double your Hits using Vengeant Cascade - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3162181

Lioneye's Fall Stacks!... - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3162302

and I also updated this post of mine from earlier:

3.15 Good Animate Guardian Setups - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3036741

(and before someone points out that they're all in a different forum, they were all posted here first - and remained here for a decent length of time before being moved by the mods)

Now here's the thing. I also then made this post, curious what would happen -

So apparently Viking warriors also wear HEELS now? - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3162345

Guess what? The first two posts didn't even fill out 1 page of responses, and the old Animate Guardian post has only now hit the second page. All three of those posts are productive and helpful.

And what of the plaintive post on high heels? 4 pages so far, and still going strong! This comment (found on Page 4) on it was especially ironic -

"

The shoes look stupid but get over it. Get over yourself. Are you just out of legit things to complain about?

None of my other posts off late have been complaint posts, they were all gameplay advice. But guess what? That person is nowhere to be found on any of them. Most of the respondents aren't. And if you go through GD now, you'll find loads of other complaint posts about the game with pages upon pages of replies. And yet people claim to not like such negativity and whining. Hmm...

So riddle me this - if ya'll seemingly desire more productive discussion on this forum (and you can find people attacking all the whining on all those complaint posts, and some even making posts of their own just to do that), then why is it that you're also all collectively boosting all the negative threads? Doesn't this strike you as a mite counterproductive?...

To be clear, I'm not upset over any of this. Rather I thought I'd test this out, and the result is that the forums overall end up looking pretty damn hypocritical. The forums are the way they are because all of you together are making it that way, and your decisions don't really line up with your stated desires in many cases. A more productive forum is possible, but it requires all of you to consciously decide to actively move it in that direction.

Btw, I did something similar for Off-Topic awhile back, if anyone's interested - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2823247

What you all do now is up to you. The future, as always, is in your hands...

Humans will be human, The difference is the viking heels thread is pretty much worthless whereas I read the vengeant cascade thread and learned something useful, just didn't post because I had nothing to offer aside from a thumbs up.

Basically if you measure your impact on a forum by how many responses you get writing toxic bait is guaranteed to make you a winner. However useful posts about mechanics are more valuable if they get even one reader, even if that reader doesn't respond. However you'll have no metric to show you this aside from self belief.

I know which one I prefer :p... Wheres that heels thread /s

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

Basically if you measure your impact on a forum by how many responses you get writing toxic bait is guaranteed to make you a winner. However useful posts about mechanics are more valuable if they get even one reader, even if that reader doesn't respond. However you'll have no metric to show you this aside from self belief.

It isn't simply about self-belief though. Each response to a thread bumps it back up. So by responding to bait, you're perpetuating and encouraging it. That's the point - the forum is the way it is because everyone, not just the person who makes the original post, has contributed to making it that way.

This is also why this place fell so hard - and repeatedly - to people like S**D**pUs**, Ko**Ge** and others in the past, until eventually they were finally taken to task by the secret police. But as a test of self-control and discipline this forum failed miserably. And, as I understand, it's mostly adults here...

Thats basically why reddit has upvote, even though that has its own full selection of problems associated with it, can't fight the system!

People seem to prefer to argue over inane shit rather than discuss actual issues/ways to do things nowadays.

Maybe as time goes on we can slowly change our ways as more and more people get tired of mud slinging that occurs in most online forums. But thats a big maybe.

"

gladiatorpie wrote:

People seem to prefer to argue over inane shit rather than discuss actual issues/ways to do things nowadays.

Maybe as time goes on we can slowly change our ways as more and more people get tired of mud slinging that occurs in most online forums. But thats a big maybe.

Honestly most of the mud slinging on forums is 90% of the time because one of the passive aggressive prolific posters that post 20+ times a day wants to insert their snark into every forum thread thats posted.

How these people are not permanently banned is beyond me i see them on probation all the time.

"

stormyknight wrote:

"

gladiatorpie wrote:

People seem to prefer to argue over inane shit rather than discuss actual issues/ways to do things nowadays.

Maybe as time goes on we can slowly change our ways as more and more people get tired of mud slinging that occurs in most online forums. But thats a big maybe.

Honestly most of the mud slinging on forums is 90% of the time because one of the passive aggressive prolific posters that post 20+ times a day wants to insert their snark into every forum thread thats posted.

How these people are not permanently banned is beyond me i see them on probation all the time.

Internet statistics are, well, internet statistics. Is there any basis for that 90% figure? Cos I see quite a few people in the posts on here. Sure some are more common than others, but it's far from threads being entirely composed of just a handful of people making up '90%' of the comments.

Pardon me for being skeptical, but this seems like a rather too convenient explanation that is, unsurprisingly, popular for it. That it all comes down to a few 'bad apples' who need to be weeded out. Which conveniently absolves the rest of the population from blame.

For example, there's 40 responses on my Heels post here so far. I just counted 33 different people from whom those responses came. Just a couple people with multiple replies. This doesn't fit in with your hypothesis...

How dare you! I love heels. And I don't care about making my gameplay more efficient.

You threaten that which is sacred. Complaining about viking chick navel and high heels? What kind of double blasphemy is this? Like seriously, someone call the commissar, pronto!

Do you remember Mass Effect Andromeda, Exile? Did you forget what happens when someone listens to such a post? Joke or no joke, curves and proper attire are a serious business!

:P

To post a followup to my previous fairly inane remark forums are almost always useless once the population reaches a certain number if it isn't heavily policed and validated.

In the good old days when beta was something games had before they released and it wasn't for marketing you always had beta forums for feedback to their associated game. DAoC, WoW, Rift, WAR etc had superb forums until the exact day general release went out at which point they became worthless.

Too many players require too much moderation, players make comments and feedback without any knowledge of the systems they are talking about and developer presence is usually treated in a manner that heavily discourages the developer actually acknowledging anything.

The problem with that is it ties back into to #1, good discussions require validation or you may as well be talking to a wall, or round a table with your friends. I have no idea if the devs give feedback on the real beta forums for PoE as I don't have access but "general discussion" forums are basically a zoo for us animals to come, bray, shout and posture so we feel better then go back to whatever.

If they were designed for anything else they would be maintained in a different fashion.