Physical Overwhelm reduces Physical DoT?

I took passives that increase Physical damage and 10% Physical Overwhelm (and Crushed debuff).

Question. Does Physical Overwhelm improve Physical dot damage and Crushed debuff can improve Physical DoT right?

I know DoT works a bit different. Just want to make sure. I stack physicl dot.

Overwhelm definitely says HITS so it wouldnt work.

Crushed... could work. Phys reduction does work vs dots, and crushed reduces it, so not sure why it wouldnt. Except sometimes GGG just decides at random to make things apply or not apply in ways no one else can understand much less explain.

Overwhelm only applies to hits, regardless of where you get it from. Crushed benefits both hits and phys DoT's.

Ugh. glad I double check. I asked this because the skill tree also has two nodes for 4% and 6^ physical dot multiplier. I figured maybe physical dot is not benefitting from overwhelm.

Ok. Thanks.

One more question.

Does Physical DoT leech health for me or only the Hits?

Whats your guys estimate how much % Overwhelm is enough to reduce the initial phys damage reduction of bosses like Shaper/Sirus.

In one of my tests i killed the Warlord Exile twice once with 0% overwhelm and once with 50% it made a huge difference in the flag phase.
Cyclone was used as a skill.

So im curious if 50% is already too high amd therefore wasted since Overwhelm cannot be negative unlike resist penetration.

"

chinesefoodverygood wrote:

One more question.

Does Physical DoT leech health for me or only the Hits?

DoT never leeches.
Hits do

"

zzang wrote:

Whats your guys estimate how much % Overwhelm is enough to reduce the initial phys damage reduction of bosses like Shaper/Sirus.

In one of my tests i killed the Warlord Exile twice once with 0% overwhelm and once with 50% it made a huge difference in the flag phase.
Cyclone was used as a skill.

So im curious if 50% is already too high amd therefore wasted since Overwhelm cannot be negative unlike resist penetration.

This is tricky because it changes depending on hard you hit. Your hits vs bosses go off the armor formula + any phys reduction they have, just like their physical hits vs you.

If you are doing boosted slams you probably dont need tons of overwhelm.

However, up to 100% is still useful, because Overwhelm, from my knowledge (others correct if wrong) is not simply cutting off a percent of Physical reduction. 10% overwhelm doesnt reduce their phys resistance by 10%. It reduces it by 10% of whatever they have.

So if they have 60% physical resistance 10% overwhelm would reduce their phsycial resistance by 6%. That can be a lot though.

So if you hit for 100 damage, it gets reduced to 40 damage. With 10% overwhelm, it gets reduced to 46 instead (100-(60*0.9). Thats a 15% increase.

100% overwhelm would make you hit for 100, or a 250% increase.

The flag phase for warlord he has like 80% or something resistance, so overhelm is huge. 50% would triple your damage output. (instead of hitting for 20, you hit for 60.

Bosses with low resistance, say 10%, overwhelm is nearly worthless.

So, it changes by situation, and depends on if you can replace it with other high value stats, like crit multi, etc.

"

trixxar wrote:

However, up to 100% is still useful, because Overwhelm, from my knowledge (others correct if wrong) is not simply cutting off a percent of Physical reduction. 10% overwhelm doesnt reduce their phys resistance by 10%. It reduces it by 10% of whatever they have.

So if they have 60% physical resistance 10% overwhelm would reduce their phsycial resistance by 6%. That can be a lot though.

Do you have any sources to back this up? I always thought it was a flat subtraction. After all, the tooltip for Overwhelm states

"

Physical Damage Reduction is lower against Overwhelming Hits, but cannot go negative

There are a few reasons to believe that 10% overwhelm on 60% PDR would result in 50% PDR, not 54% PDR:

• They didn't use the word "Reduce" in that tooltip. It doesn't say anything like "Physical Damage Reduction is reduced by the Overwhelm amount against Overwhelming Hits."
• The tooltip mentions "cannot go negative," which is not relevant in the case of reductions. The game doesn't allow you to go above 100% reduced (if you had 110% reduced damage taken, you wouldn't heal), so there'd be no point in adding that disclaimer if Overwhelm %reduces instead of flat subtraction. In contrast, flat subtraction like with lowered resists commonly does go below zero, so it would be a necessary clarification to add that Overwhelm cannot take it below zero if it's flat subtraction like with lowered resists.
• My distant memory says that before Overwhelm was called Overwhelm, it was called "Enemies have -% to Total Physical Damage Reduction against your hits," which is much more unambiguously a flat subtraction and not %reduced. This is supported by this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/fcojvn/question_regarding_enemies_have_to_total_physical/fjcel7v/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 which is the thread wherein Mark_GGG confirms Overwhelm cannot lower an enemy's PDR% below zero.

EDIT: Supporting that third point:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2874509/page/2#p23274449 VolcanoElixir wrote for posterity,

"

VolcanoElixir wrote:

It's a word they came up with to replace the super awkward "enemies have -#% to Total Physical Damage Reduction against your Hits" phrase.

which I believe.

"

adghar wrote:

Do you have any sources to back this up? I always thought it was a flat subtraction. After all, the tooltip for Overwhelm states

"

Physical Damage Reduction is lower against Overwhelming Hits, but cannot go negative

There are a few reasons to believe that 10% overwhelm on 60% PDR would result in 50% PDR, not 54% PDR:

• They didn't use the word "Reduce" in that tooltip. It doesn't say anything like "Physical Damage Reduction is reduced by the Overwhelm amount against Overwhelming Hits."
• The tooltip mentions "cannot go negative," which is not relevant in the case of reductions. The game doesn't allow you to go above 100% reduced (if you had 110% reduced damage taken, you wouldn't heal), so there'd be no point in adding that disclaimer if Overwhelm %reduces instead of flat subtraction. In contrast, flat subtraction like with lowered resists commonly does go below zero, so it would be a necessary clarification to add that Overwhelm cannot take it below zero if it's flat subtraction like with lowered resists.
• My distant memory says that before Overwhelm was called Overwhelm, it was called "Enemies have -% to Total Physical Damage Reduction against your hits," which is much more unambiguously a flat subtraction and not %reduced. This is supported by this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/fcojvn/question_regarding_enemies_have_to_total_physical/fjcel7v/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 which is the thread wherein Mark_GGG confirms Overwhelm cannot lower an enemy's PDR% below zero.

EDIT: Supporting that third point:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2874509/page/2#p23274449 VolcanoElixir wrote for posterity,

"

VolcanoElixir wrote:

It's a word they came up with to replace the super awkward "enemies have -#% to Total Physical Damage Reduction against your Hits" phrase.

which I believe.

You could definitely be right, it would be nice to have GGG weigh in here.

Points for it acting as a percent on enemy reduction
-Other resistances specifically word it as "enemy resistance lowered by x" so if that is going on, why is this the one case they don't say it?
-Overwhelm specifically replaced a more clear version that did exactly what you said. If the mechanic was unchanged, why change the way it is worded? (you could, and do, argue that this suggests the mechanic was unchanged, but I feel it points the opposite.)
-Other game mechanics that apply in the same way do as a multiplier, not a flat value. Reduced mana reserved is multiplied against the mana reservation, not against the flat pool of your mana. Unless specifically stated. This would make overwhelm the one game mechanic that is flat reduction but doesnt specify it is flat? Why?
-Not proof, but getting physical reduction on the tree is easy, a build not even trying for it might end up north of 40%, which would be enough to negate almost any boss that is not modified to be armored + flat phys reduction. Even in my verion this would be powerful, in yours it would be insanely powerful, perhaps the most important stat to hit a 40-50% threshold.

Again, that is 100% possible, it would just be surprising.