Question: "Increased Maximum Total Recovery from Leech" and "Increased Life Recovery rate"

I couldnt find a clear answer to this on the interwebs so im asking here:

Does the generic "Increased Life Recovery Rate" mod increase the default maximum total life leech cap (20%) that otherwise is only increased by the mod: "Increased Maximum Total Recovery from Leech"?

Example: I leech 20% of max Life per second at my maximum total leech cap per default. If i have 100% "Increased Life Recovery Rate" would i leech 40%?

There is this line in the Wiki under the Recovery page (https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Recovery):

"Note that modifiers to Recovery Rate, such as Patient Reaper or "of Smothering" map modifiers are a multiplier to all recovery gained from recovery over time effects (Regeneration, non-instant Leech and Flasks, ...) and do not affect duration."

This would imply that generic "Increased Life Recovery rate" does increase the maximum total recovery from leech.

The wording strongly suggests it and POB is also calculating it that way so i'd say yes it does. Don't have a definite source/proof though.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

The wording strongly suggests it and POB is also calculating it that way so i'd say yes it does. Don't have a definite source/proof though.

Alright thanks i will go on and plan with the assumptuon that recovery works on max total leech cap.

Actually i got one more question.

In PoB the "increased life Recovery Mod" seems to work for leech per second number.
But ingame in the "Misc" sheet "increased life Recovery Mod" shows no difference in the line "Maximum Total Life Recovery per Second".

On the other hand when i equip an item with "increased Maximum Total Life Recovery per second" it is shown under the "Misc" tab ingame.

From my testing: Arakali Pantheon with 50% increased recovery of life and energy shield if you have stopped taking damage over time recently + 20% increased life recovery from the Torrents Reclamation seemed to be no difference when i tried to leech from low life when killing a big pack of monsters compared to having no "increased life recovery mod at all". Test method was activate bloodrage in mainhand and weapon swap to deactivate the degen.

Then there is this map mod "Players have x% less Recovery Rate of Life and Energy Shield" which seem to affect my total leech in testing but it does not change my "Misc" sheet.This could maybe be due to each leech instance being very small due to heavy map mod reduction i saw go up to 90% less recovery.

Also the wording on this implicit seem to have changed in patch 3.14:

Before the wording was "20% increased total Recovery per second from Life"
now it seems more generic but also does not affect my "Misc" sheet for max total leech nor my total leech in testing since i got 5 of those and 100% max total leech would be very noticeable for tests.

Conclusion ???

Im really lost anyone maybe have a link form Mark on Reddit where he elaborates the effects on "increased life recovery" on the new leech system with its "maximum total life leech" mod?

Only source i know of is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfotzFCNPUY

Starting around 1:00:00

They mention specifically that total recovery doesn't show up ingame so just another reason to ignore ingame tooltip.

The map mod is probably just a negative version of the stat you get from gear.

I see. I assume my testing wasnt done properly in this case.

I just wonder about the changed wording on the harvest jewel implicits saying "increased Recovery per second from Life Leech"

It used to be
"increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech" which matches one of the terms used in the wiki: https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Leech

Additionally the equivalent mana leech implicit still got the word "total".

Is there a possibility that the new wording on the implicit is just a mistake where the word "total" is missing?

If the new wording is intentional then what does the new term "increased Recovery per second from Life Leech" refer to?
Because the word "total", "maximum" or "maxium total" is missing.

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zzang wrote:

I see. I assume my testing wasnt done properly in this case.

I just wonder about the changed wording on the harvest jewel implicits saying "increased Recovery per second from Life Leech"

It used to be
"increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech" which matches one of the terms used in the wiki: https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Leech

Additionally the equivalent mana leech implicit still got the word "total".

Is there a possibility that the new wording on the implicit is just a mistake where the word "total" is missing?

If the new wording is intentional then what does the new term "increased Recovery per second from Life Leech" refer to?
Because the word "total", "maximum" or "maxium total" is missing.

"increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech" was reworded to "increased Recovery per second from Life Leech". It wasn't changed mechanically. They didn't reword the same stat for mana leech though, nice catch here.

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MonaHuna wrote:

"increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech" was reworded to "increased Recovery per second from Life Leech". It wasn't changed mechanically. They didn't reword the same stat for mana leech though, nice catch here.

Alright questions solved

TLDR for anyone who stumbles across this in the future:

Only good stats in regards to leech are "Maximum Total" and generic "Increased Recovery". Rest of the leech mods can be ignored.

Increased recovery per second is important for slow hitting builds as it makes it faster to reach your leech cap. Fast attacking builds only need maximum total and increased recovery though.

/edit to give an example. A char with 5k life and no leech modifiers can leech 2% life per second per instance and 20% per second over all instances. Which means total cap 1k life and instance cap is 100 life. Now a fast hitting build will quickly generate 10 instances to hit the max cap. A slow hitting build however might never get there or only after several seconds. So fast hitting builds want to scale their overall cap as the instance cap is irrelevant for them but slow hitting builds need to scale both caps. Increasing the overall cap is meaningless if you can't generate enough instances to even hit the regular cap.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

/edit to give an example. A char with 5k life and no leech modifiers can leech 2% life per second per instance and 20% per second over all instances. Which means total cap 1k life and instance cap is 100 life. Now a fast hitting build will quickly generate 10 instances to hit the max cap. A slow hitting build however might never get there or only after several seconds. So fast hitting builds want to scale their overall cap as the instance cap is irrelevant for them but slow hitting builds need to scale both caps. Increasing the overall cap is meaningless if you can't generate enough instances to even hit the regular cap.

Right i dont had slow hit builds in mind even my slammer had 5 aps.
Plus overleech from Slayer or Immortal Ambition makes the other leech stats that dont increase the total maximum useless to me.

Still there might be some super niche builds that dont use overleech AND are super slow hitting like 1-2 aps. Id question the viability of those builds in the first place but the use case is theoretically there.