The Maven fight doesn't really make sense

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DBrody wrote:

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PilotLanguste wrote:

She literally plays with me and yet I can somehow beat her?

Did you listen to anything the Maven, or the Envoy, said in the 500+ maps you had to have run leading up to your first Maven fight? Or ever listen to Zana or Kirac about her?

Toying with you is EXACTLY what she's doing. She is a giant cat pawing at us insignificant mice to see what we do.

You "beat" her because she wants to see you struggle instead of outright killing you (the Envoy also mentions this after you beat her). Kirac pleads with you to keep entertaining her until a long term solution to deal with the Maven can be gleaned.

What she does in the fight makes sense.

When you beat her for the first time, the Envoy explains that she's a newborn in terms of eldritch horrors. Her mentality is entirely childlike. She even starts to understand that you're alive and hopes that the two of you will keep playing. The only reason the Envoy steps in when you defeat her is because, in his words, harming her further is going to make her call out for her progenitors which are far more powerful.

So yes, the Maven is playing with you, like a child plays with toys. Her idea of playing, considering her fascination for violence, is through combat.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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Marxone wrote:

wait, she has voice queues for her abilities?
I guess they are completely meaningless, not like "Die" by Sirus.
Sirus has meteor, Maven has dumbgame.

I guess I like Sirus now.
If I'd take a look at my Sirus shit throwing, I guess the game can get worst in comparison.

How are they meaningless? Her voice queues always tell you what her next move is going to be, and unlike Sirus, she doesn't 1shot your ass after teleporting offscreen with a beam that travels instantly.

Additionally, her voice queues are generously telegraphed which is a lot more than I can say for Sirus's "Die" attack. Most of the fight with Sirus is bad. Barring the memory puzzle, Maven is an improvement in boss design and I hope GGG continues that trend.

I mean, Maven does nothing dangerous for my "average" MoM Agnostic bosser. Only thing that kills me is the memory game because I am lazy to zone out.
Having a lot of time between phases is a plus.

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demon9675 wrote:

Sirus and Maven are extremely difficult bosses. They are supposed to be. It's OK to just plainly state that they're really, really hard (and the folks out there claiming otherwise have amnesia about their own practice or overall gaming skill, which was not easy to obtain).

Except they aren't hard. They are just poorly designed in that they don't really work with how the game plays.

Maven is a joke until last phase, unless you get absurdly unlucky rng boss spawns, like double brutus. The last phase is ruined by janky character movement combined with bad coil hitboxes, it just feels awful overall. And then there is the memory game, which just means you log out, because doing it is pointless. And you can do that, because all the other mechanics are a joke.

Sirus is, again, a joke until the last phase, the most difficult part is getting back to him. His mazes are trivial unless he bugs or you are playing some negative ms build, his die beams are the easiest things to dodge before the last phase.
The last phase is awful, because offscreen attacks aren't good game design.

Both of these bosses also have in common that they just port around like crazy, making them terrible for certain builds.