Whispering Ice "Icestorm" discussion about 3.12's big changes...
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Because 15/60 =.25 or 25%
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overall it's a nerf if you have a spam style play.
if you did 100 dps per storm before with the impact change you deal 50 dps with the damage change you deal 75 dps with the area ratio change where before was 10/25 and now is 16/22 you deal 218.25 dps With max intensity stacks and 0 aoe, this of course goes alot higher since the target size does not change so you have something looking like (6.4+2)^2/ 8.8^2 =91% hit rate (assuming conc effect cancels out any residue aoe increases from intensity itself). so you deal effectively another 36% more damage due to aoe changes indirectly when support is factored in. Bringing your dps to 296 per storm post-patch vs 100 pre-patch(no aoe intensity effect factored). Now that is 1 storm active all the time. If we are talking about MAX DPS potential, then we have to account for total duration, cast speed. Post-Patch the max dps potential will be x5(5 storms), generally achieved with something like 2.5 casts per second(88%cast speed) & 1k int. Pre-Patch Max dps potential with the same 1k int and 88% cast speed that base dps scaled by say 90% dur from tree and 1.5 more base dur and another x2 multiplier from duration granted by int thus having a storm last 5.7 seconds, and with a 2.5cs, you can have in that 5.7s about 14.25 storms, and factoring in the aoe effect from intensity to even out the playing field, you are looking at a dps multiplier of roughly x22.3 -> 2230 dps vs 1480 a 50% more max dps pre-patch with the difference only getting larger if you have more int & cast speed. But for most icestorm players this is in general a good change and will allow you to deal damage much faster, go by faster and with less lag, plus on boss you won't have to sit there stacking storms for over 6 seconds just to reach max dps, if a boss moves, your damage now follow with much faster (albeit you still can't move otherwise your intensity stacks are gone). Despite the potential max dmg loss, it'll feel better vs mobile bosses and if you have to kite alot, which I imagine be the case for most icestorm players, were it up to me I'd have had the damage go up in line by x2 instead of x1.5 because icestorm was kind of lackluster to begin with(mostly since it's tied with the staff)
Area effect Calculations if you wanted to see
assuming the radius of target is 2. in the pre-patch firestorm, you had basically a 12 distance range to hit (anything landing within a 12 unit radius of the target hit box would hit it, conversely anything landing outside of the 12 unit radius of the target hit box would miss it). now our 'chance to land' within this area out of the total 25 unit radius assuming they land completely randomly is a comparison of area ratios between the outer edge ring cut out vs the hit circle. the hit circle area is pir^2 -> pi(12)^2 the outer ring edge miss area is -> pir^2(outer) - pir^2(inner) -> pi(25)^2 - pi(12)^2 cancelling out the pi, we can say the hit ratio is 144 / 481. Meaning for every 144 fireballs that hit, 481 will miss. Thus your actual hit chance is 144(hits) / 625(total shots fired) = 23.04%. Which you can see is just the area of the hit circle / area of hit possibility. But I split it this way because maybe it's more intuitive to see. Updating this to the new ranges -> (16+2)^2 / 22^2 = 67% chance to hit thus your dps due to hit rate increased by a multiplier of about x2.91 Edit: changed the max dps potential from approx 93%->50%, added in another 2 units base radius yesterday in the calculation for intensity, but already had computer shut off so didn't change it then. Last edited by SIQI#7936 on Sep 17, 2020, 8:03:49 AM
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" Yeah, but it is wrong. 45 · 1.33333 = 60, so it's 33% more. Bird lover of Wraeclast
Las estrellas te iluminan - Hoy te sirven de guía Te sientes tan fuerte que piensas - que nadie te puede tocar |
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-mispost
Last edited by SIQI#7936 on Sep 17, 2020, 8:05:22 AM
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It's a pretty large nerf to the most popular playstyle of Icestorm. CwC Cyclone storm spam, often with Spell Cascade or awakened spell cascade to put ice over the entire screen.
I'm 100% sure there is a good way to continue playing Icestorm, but nothing I can think of will be as buttery smooth as the older build that has been optimized over years. Icestorms main defining identity was to cover the world with ice. With the limit to 5 storms, that identity is gone, and the top end DPS seriously lags. Self cast Icestorm may be better now, but that's not really how 95% of Icestormers played the skill. |
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" i thought intensify did not work with triggered skills? its only self cast |
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" Actually I don't think the maths is right. The formula for the area of a circle is: pi * square of its radius I can't do a pi symbol or a squared on here. Pi is a mathematical constant, which is 3.142. So the area covered by each of the two circles is: 10 radius circle = (3.142 * 10 * 10) = 314.2 16 radius circle = (3.142 * 16 * 16) = 804.352 804 is 256% of 314. Or you could say that the original area, 314, has been increased by 156% Last edited by SpontaneousCombustion#3458 on Sep 17, 2020, 10:53:46 AM
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" ... You are wrong on almost every account. Congratulation. Old Icestorm was 45% damage effectiveness hitting every 0,1s. Not every 0,2s. Every 0,1s. The new icestorm is 60% damage effectiveness, hitting every 0,2s. Period. You don't compare 45% every 0,2s to 60% every 0,2s, you compare the old coefficient with the old hit rate to the new coefficient with the new hit rate. Period. Everything else is bullshit. And telling me I'm fabricating stuff while you ARE mixing old and new stats at once is really ridiculous. Also, for your information, despite someone told you about it, no, going from 45% to 60% is NOT a 25% increase. It's a 33% increase. It's going from 60% to 45% which is a 25% decrease. Maths are apparently very hard. Last edited by Keyen#4575 on Sep 17, 2020, 1:17:14 PM
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If anyone is interested I have modified the Firestorm/Icestorm Google spreadsheet linked on the wiki used for calculating DPS.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11eQmjpfq5GorGuJt7Rgh1OZFscjKqKD3tYDpz0lx4lM/edit?usp=sharing Just input your values in the respective sheet (pre-nerf or post-nerf). It doesn't support the 5-storm limit so if you trigger the skill via CwC you have to type in the trigger cast speed * 5 in the duration field instead. For selfcasting it's also not supported as it will base the calculations on if you stack 5+ storms if your duration would allow it. Last edited by LiNGeN#0966 on Sep 17, 2020, 2:31:15 PM
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" thanks for the calculation. from what i can see it is essentially a damage cap no matter how we look at this unfortunately the damage cap comes with lower survivability due to lower hits per second for ES leech and ES gained on hit. |
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