Summon Phantasm Support and Inspiration Support

Looking for confirmation on this because it seems like it should work...

Running a build with Glacial Cascade linked with Summon Phantasm Support and Triad grip converting the phantasm damage to cold. I'm trying to find supports that will support both the phantasm and GC, and looking at inspiration support it seems like it should work.

According to the page for Inspiration it states that minions cannot gain the charges, but also states that any linked skills will benefit from charges regardless of where the charges originated. So if I'm generating charges on myself via GC would that affect the elemental damage of the phantasms?

Or do the inspiration charges work like power charges where they themselves are applying the buff so they would need to be on the minions, not me?

And, lastly, if they do in fact benefit the phantasms, would a separate gem setup with an inspiration linked to herald of purity affect the herald of purity minions' damage while I have charges on me generated by GC?

Giving Inspiration to Summon Phantasm, which is indeed the only way for them to gain bonus from your Inspiration Charges (since the Charge itself does nothing - the support gem itself offers a bonus depending on your charges), will boost their critChance and elemental damage if you give them any.

So,
No: your Phantasms do not need to have the charges on them to get "their" bonus. You do, however
No: Giving GC and Phantasms a separate Inspiration support won't "double" the bonus. Each support will give to GC and Phantasms their bonus depending on scaling.


Edit: striked out false informations

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Maxtrux wrote:

No: Giving GC and Phantasms a separate Inspiration support won't "double" the bonus. Each support will give to GC and Phantasms their bonus depending on scaling.

Thanks for the response :-)

I was asking if I have a separate herald of purity setup, also linked to inspiration, if the herald of purity minions would benefit from the charges I'm generating through GC in my main link setup. I'm thinking they would if its correct that the phantasms benefit.

Right, sorry.
In order for the minions of Herald of Purity to get bonus from Inspiration support, they should be supported by Inspiration as well. This will also increase the mana reservation, so unless you are going with that Armour with the fixed 45% manaReservation for heralds, be wary about it

EDIT: Striked-out false informations

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Supports any skill. Minions, Totems, Traps and Mines cannot gain Inspiration Charges.

Thats the text from the skill gem. Flat out doesn't work on minions.

Actually, Gravedanced made me think a bit more about Minion skills in general. Yes, they are right and I was wrong on everything I said so far. I'll strike it after this post.

Skills that summons minions are made of two different parts: the minion which is summoned and the actual summon itself. The act of summoning is considered the "skill", while the minion is akin to a by-product. Usually, bonus that applies to skills would instead boost only the summon part. This is why "add x-y damage" won't boost the minion damage (It would boost the "summon'"s damage, which does not makes sense), and bonus on cast speed on items would only make the summoning faster (if the summoning comes from a spell), but won't make the summoned minion cast its spell faster.

When a support gem is linked to a Minion skill, the Support gem will try to apply to both the summoning skill and the minion it will create. This is why supporting a Summon Skeleton with a Spell Echo will make both the "Summon" and any spell casted by the Summoned Skeleton Mages from that skill repeat, or supporting a Dominating Blow with Multistrike will make both the Attack and the Dominance's attacks repeat twice.

In the case of Inspiration, it would decrease both the mana cost of the summoning and the minion's skills (which make no sense since minion's abilities are "mana-free"), but will not make them gain Inspiration charges as Gravedancer pointed out in the very gem's description.
I've forgot how support gems interacted with minion skills and expected the charges' bonus to actually apply to minions, because I did not translate correctly the "Supported Skills deal x% more eleDamage and have x% incCritChance per Inspiration Charge on you" in a "Minions from supported skills deal x% more eleDamage and have x% incCritChance per Inspiration Charges on them". Which, as stated before, does not have sense.
The net result would just be Charge generation at every summon, reduced mana cost for the spell and "increased critChance and more eleDamage" on the "summoning" part of the skills. Which, like said before, has no sense.

Thank you for the chin-up, Gravedancer, once again, and I apologize, rpgambit, for any trouble my misdirection may have caused

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Gravedancer wrote:

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Supports any skill. Minions, Totems, Traps and Mines cannot gain Inspiration Charges.

Thats the text from the skill gem. Flat out doesn't work on minions.

The text says minions cannot gain charges, which I acknowledged in my OP. So my question is whether the benefit from the charges is from the charges or from the gem? Power charges inherently do what they do. However "inspiration support" says

"Supported skills deal #% more elemental damage per inspiration charge"

Normally with a skill like Magma Orb that line implies "per inspiration charge (on you)" So does that implied "on you" become "on the minion"? Or does the skill benefit from your charges, like any other supported skill would? If I have magma orb, it gains +#% more elemental per charge on me from the gem. Why wouldn't a minion skill work the same way?

So the question is, is the scaling from the charges on you? Or is it implied the charges themselves are granting the benefit? It isn't at all clear. Especially since in the description of the support on the site says all inspiration supports you have linked share charges.

So yea, minions cant gain charges, so if you link it to a minion they wont just generate charges or benefit on their own. But I'm not sure that implies that they don't benefit from your charges. Would just like some more official confirmation. I could see it going either way.

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rpgambit wrote:

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Gravedancer wrote:

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Supports any skill. Minions, Totems, Traps and Mines cannot gain Inspiration Charges.

Thats the text from the skill gem. Flat out doesn't work on minions.

The text says minions cannot gain charges, which I acknowledged in my OP. So my question is whether the benefit from the charges is from the charges or from the gem? Power charges inherently do what they do. However "inspiration support" says

"Supported skills deal #% more elemental damage per inspiration charge"

Normally with a skill like Magma Orb that line implies "per inspiration charge (on you)" So does that implied "on you" become "on the minion"? Or does the skill benefit from your charges, like any other supported skill would? If I have magma orb, it gains +#% more elemental per charge on me from the gem. Why wouldn't a minion skill work the same way?

So the question is, is the scaling from the charges on you? Or is it implied the charges themselves are granting the benefit? It isn't at all clear. Especially since in the description of the support on the site says all inspiration supports you have linked share charges.

So yea, minions cant gain charges, so if you link it to a minion they wont just generate charges or benefit on their own. But I'm not sure that implies that they don't benefit from your charges. Would just like some more official confirmation. I could see it going either way.

Minions never benefit from your charges under any circumstances.

Minions would in theory inherit the line about gaining the benefit per charge - but with no way to gain charges it's just a technicality without use. Minions use their offensive stats so no charges = no benefit. Kinda like how supporting a minion with power charge on crit scales the minions damage with the number of charges on the minion (and so is semi-hard caped at 12%) - not on you. Except in this case their max charges is set to 0 instead of 3.

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Gravedancer wrote:

Minions would in theory inherit the line about gaining the benefit per charge - but with no way to gain charges it's just a technicality without use. Minions use their offensive stats so no charges = no benefit. Kinda like how supporting a minion with power charge on crit scales the minions damage with the number of charges on the minion (and so is semi-hard caped at 12%) - not on you. Except in this case their max charges is set to 0 instead of 3.

Good example. I was trying to find an analogous skill. Yeah ok, given that, that makes sense. Wording could be clearer though.