Specific Questions About Elemental Equilibrium with Minion and Herald

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

I'm starting to think is it even worth it for the buff to lightning dmg and lightning penetration (from Elementalist/Scion) over say just going Wrath aura if we're going to be reserving more mana and weakening HoT?

I'm pretty sure that a buffed herald + penetration from Mastermind of Discord is better that Wrath both in damage and in mana reservation. With Scion penetration doesn't rely on heralds at all - it's just generic 10%, the buff effect is bigger (40%) but there is no reservation reductions (still better that Wrath mana wise even with Brutality).

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

Or is there another support gem that gives "added physical" that would still make HoT help with AoE clear?

I would not bother with flat phys or chaos. The point of HoT in this build is to get some flat damage and extra pen, not to help with clear.

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

Not sure how important/how much lightning penetration is needed to fully pierce through resistant mobs? I think bosses have a decent amount of resist but the Wiki for elemental penetration doesn't say how much they usually have.

Uniques have 50% to all ele resists. EE will take it to 0%. If Mastermind of Discord is your only other source of lower resistances or ele penetration, it will then act as a 25% more multiplier. You can simulate different scenarios using PoB, e.g. one of the guardians + 40% ele resist map mod.

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

Does this mean I must ignore support gems and/or passives that give chance to ignite, in the case that the lightning or cold hits from Ele Hit attack will ignite a target, thus making EE give fire+lightning or fire+cold resists at once?

Cold and lightning can not ignite unless you are using certain unique items. But it does't matter anyway since ignite deals damage over time, it doesn't hit and can not trigger EE.

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etuhoha wrote:

Uniques have 50% to all ele resists. EE will take it to 0%. If Mastermind of Discord is your only other source of lower resistances or ele penetration, it will then act as a 25% more multiplier. You can simulate different scenarios using PoB, e.g. one of the guardians + 40% ele resist map mod.

OK ty.
So the overpen/negative resistance is definitely a "more" modifier and not "increase"? This is something else I could not find direct info on as I've been trying to figure out if having over-penetration would be more, or at least same DPS as a flat added X-Y damage gem.

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

So the overpen/negative resistance is definitely a "more" modifier and not "increase"?

No, what I said is that it would act like 25% more multiplier if your only source of pen/decreased resistances was EE. True "more" multipliers boost damage by exactly the same percentage no matter what build/equipment is used. Say Pain Attunement always increases spell damage by 30% because it doesn't combined with anything else and acts as a multiplier of its own. On the other hand, ele penetration's relative effectiveness depends on the presence of other source of ele pen/decrease (and target's resistances for that matter), because all these modifiers are added together in a final multiplier and thus are subject to diminishing effectiveness.

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etuhoha wrote:

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

So the overpen/negative resistance is definitely a "more" modifier and not "increase"?

On the other hand, ele penetration's relative effectiveness depends on the presence of other source of ele pen/decrease (and target's resistances for that matter), because all these modifiers are added together in a final multiplier and thus are subject to diminishing effectiveness.

My bad I read that wrong and just auto-thought the differences between more/increased that I keep reading about in PoE.

So assuming that we have lots of sources of penetration, and if negative resistances are thing (are they in fact?) then do you still do more damage to a boss that potentially has a negative resist?

I'll try POB sometime but I heard it's really confusing to learn and set up and the past couple days I've been reading/watching videos a lot more than playing and just want to get back to leveling this char now.

I'm at the level where I can use penetration gems but even with EE I think I read somewhere that bosses can have up to 75% resist (or 100+ with map mods). So I'm not sure if EE+Scion-based Elementalist 60% pen will be enough. But if I use a penetration gem I'm not sure if I'll be overkilling it (and thus the negative resist being useless) where I could use a damage gem instead.

Also, I noticed earlier tonight while switching my herald gems around with support gems that most of them showed to work with HoT *and* HoI (with the green checkmarks). I think it was for support gems that said "supports skills that hit".
Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that only HoT functioned differently from the others (regarding the Brutality support gem) but I'm wondering now if I need BS gem linked to HoI as well to stop it from activating cold resist from EE?

The streamer in the video I linked doesn't seem to use Brutality support with anything else other than HoT so just wondering why HoI lights up with a checkmark as well for support gems "that hit"?
Thanks.

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

So assuming that we have lots of sources of penetration, and if negative resistances are thing (are they in fact?) then do you still do more damage to a boss that potentially has a negative resist?

Negative resistances are very real, just look at most people's chaos res. Yes, it means that the target will take more damage. E.g. a 100dmg hit will deal 50dmg at 50% res, 100dmg at 0%, 150dmg at -50% .

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

I'm at the level where I can use penetration gems but even with EE I think I read somewhere that bosses can have up to 75% resist (or 100+ with map mods). So I'm not sure if EE+Scion-based Elementalist 60% pen will be enough.

It's important to stay practical too. Yes, you can imagine all sorts of combinations of map mods, but then ask yourself - how often will you encounter such combinations? With few exceptions true endgame bosses (Shaper, Uber Elder, etc.) won't have map modifiers and have predictable resistances. Also, while lowering/penetrating resistances is important, leaving some in one map out of ten is not the end of the world - you'll just spend a bit more time killing monsters.

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

But if I use a penetration gem I'm not sure if I'll be overkilling it (and thus the negative resist being useless) where I could use a damage gem instead.

PoB is invaluable for questions like this because it will do calculations instantly and you can simulate different situations by playing with its settings to evaluate effectiveness of individual skills/items. Personally I would not use "X Penetration Support" gem with EE and other sources of penetration, especially for Elemental Hit, where it is useless 2/3 of the time (with an exception of Shroud of Lightless, because it grants tri-element penetration). On the other hand the new notable Corrosive Elements from cluster jewels is probably worth trying, since it will give exposure for each element.

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

The streamer in the video I linked doesn't seem to use Brutality support with anything else other than HoT so just wondering why HoI lights up with a checkmark as well for support gems "that hit"?
Thanks.

I haven't checked, but even if HoI triggers EE it's not a big deal, since it happens once per shatter, and monsters around will probably be killed by the explosion anyway. HoT will frequently zap everything around you for some time though, messing resistances of the next few packs/bosses.