[LORE] The Conquerors of the Atlas and Their Projections

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Exile009 wrote:

Either he isn't easy to tempt, or he can only be tempted with more power to do anything. He doesn't have any grand motivations, like the others do.

Beg to differ.

He did it for Zana. Basically he went from being a small time shuffler to leading an expedition against a cosmic precursor entity. The only thing that could have propelled a cautious, perspicacious man of business into Biblical scale peril is the thought of that sweet, sweet bathwater.

And when he is trapped in limbo and watches her walk away giving him up for dead, he imagines he sees the truth, that he meant nothing to her. His last journal entry is full of the rage and bitterness of rejection.

We don't really know how Sirus came to be on the team. He himself recognized he didn't have any particular calling or skills in defence of the universe. I think he just befriended Zana through some business contact and became infatuated with her. He exploited her grieving over her father to insinuate himself in the team. Or perhaps he truly empathized with her loss and trauma, but his obsession with getting laid overrode his common sense, decorum, and self-preservation.

Perhaps at some point she picked up this vibe about him and was disturbed by it, enough to ensure that when the business with the Elder was concluded, so was the business with Sirus.

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Exile009 wrote:

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de99ial wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

Sirus is resistant to his projection for a similar reason that Frodo was resistant to the One Ring - there just isn't very much the thing can use to tempt them.

In LOTR One Ring doesnt "give" any power it only enhances it. Hobbits are weakest species among all and thats why One Ring has least influence on them. But in hands of for example Gandalf it would be very different thing because Gandalf is a Majar (something like angel). That is where its corruption power is. And because it is a part of Sauron every holder of One Ring will become Sauron-like being no matter who he/she was before.

I could be wrong, but my understanding of LOTR is that while the power the Ring grants you is indeed based on your own power, its corrupting visions are based on your desires and/or convictions. So while yes, hobbits gain the least amount of power from the ring, the reason they're also least tempted by it is cos of how contented they are with their lot in life. They aren't as susceptible to being blinded by pride (like Elves), greed (like Dwarves) or ambition (like Men).

The real corrupting power od The Ring is that it CANNOT be destroyed by its holder willingly. Also The Ring is part od Sauron himself and he is Majar of Melkor/Morgoth one of the Valars (something like Gods; there is rather clear structure in LOTR lore - Eru Illuvatar is similar to Swiatowid from Slavic Mythology, it is God of The Gods, Light od The World the First that born everything else, after there are Valars like lesser to Eru Gods and Majar - angel like beings). Melkor after his defeat was exiled but his "spirit" still roams Middle Earth and because his physical form was destroyed he influenced Sauron. And Sauron learned how to forge Rings Of Power to of course seize all the Power that is there (Eru Illuvatar when created everything spread himself among every existence, the Light; and Morgoth wanted that Light for himself; obviously he passed that "wanting" on his servant). So The One Ring is actually embodiemnt of spirit of Melkor/Morgoth and this spirit has its own will. And yes he uses all weakness points because during the creation he himself putted there all that thing. Valars created the world by Song Of Creation but Melkor added false tones to it, "writing" darkness into everything that exists.

So in a matter Ring - Melkor Will - is reaching to Melkor within every living creature. And more powerfull creature has the highier amount of Light of Eru he/she holds but Light alos casts a Sahdows so Melkor influence is way bigger in brighter creatures. And hobbits are creatures that holds little Erus Light and because of this a little Shadow.

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de99ial wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

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de99ial wrote:

In LOTR One Ring doesnt "give" any power it only enhances it. Hobbits are weakest species among all and thats why One Ring has least influence on them. But in hands of for example Gandalf it would be very different thing because Gandalf is a Majar (something like angel). That is where its corruption power is. And because it is a part of Sauron every holder of One Ring will become Sauron-like being no matter who he/she was before.

I could be wrong, but my understanding of LOTR is that while the power the Ring grants you is indeed based on your own power, its corrupting visions are based on your desires and/or convictions. So while yes, hobbits gain the least amount of power from the ring, the reason they're also least tempted by it is cos of how contented they are with their lot in life. They aren't as susceptible to being blinded by pride (like Elves), greed (like Dwarves) or ambition (like Men).

The real corrupting power od The Ring is that it CANNOT be destroyed by its holder willingly. Also The Ring is part od Sauron himself and he is Majar of Melkor/Morgoth one of the Valars (something like Gods; there is rather clear structure in LOTR lore - Eru Illuvatar is similar to Swiatowid from Slavic Mythology, it is God of The Gods, Light od The World the First that born everything else, after there are Valars like lesser to Eru Gods and Majar - angel like beings). Melkor after his defeat was exiled but his "spirit" still roams Middle Earth and because his physical form was destroyed he influenced Sauron. And Sauron learned how to forge Rings Of Power to of course seize all the Power that is there (Eru Illuvatar when created everything spread himself among every existence, the Light; and Morgoth wanted that Light for himself; obviously he passed that "wanting" on his servant). So The One Ring is actually embodiemnt of spirit of Melkor/Morgoth and this spirit has its own will. And yes he uses all weakness points because during the creation he himself putted there all that thing. Valars created the world by Song Of Creation but Melkor added false tones to it, "writing" darkness into everything that exists.

So in a matter Ring - Melkor Will - is reaching to Melkor within every living creature. And more powerfull creature has the highier amount of Light of Eru he/she holds but Light alos casts a Sahdows so Melkor influence is way bigger in brighter creatures. And hobbits are creatures that holds little Erus Light and because of this a little Shadow.

Maybe you're right. Though I have to admit to finding that explanation rather disappointing. Part of the appeal of the explanation I had in mind was that it was easy to translate to our real world as well, to basically use the Ring from LOTR as a sort of poetic or philosophical metaphor for the importance of learning to appreciate being content (provided you've a reasonably comfortable standard of living of course, like the hobbits seem to). To tie it in so intimately with the magic of the LOTR mythology is to take away from that i.e. it can't really be applied to our own lives in the real world anymore, since that mythology and all the magic that goes with it doesn't exist here. Ah well...

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Exile009 wrote:

Maybe you're right. Though I have to admit to finding that explanation rather disappointing. Part of the appeal of the explanation I had in mind was that it was easy to translate to our real world as well, to basically use the Ring from LOTR as a sort of poetic or philosophical metaphor for the importance of learning to appreciate being content (provided you've a reasonably comfortable standard of living of course, like the hobbits seem to). To tie it in so intimately with the magic of the LOTR mythology is to take away from that i.e. it can't really be applied to our own lives in the real world anymore, since that mythology and all the magic that goes with it doesn't exist here. Ah well...

Look... Its mythology. It is what You make it. You can see it as a "just a fairy tale with magick" or You can understand that all myths are actually an archetype stories about human kind and all things that we as humans are. Metaphor of The Ring is simply to me - it represents something that lure ppl into doing thing they normally wont do to get what they think they want (power). But they seem not to see what that road makes to them (corruption) and in the end if they reach that goal they are something they didnt even wanted to be at starting point. Hobbits are symbols of someone who just want simple life because in the end it is most rewarding of all. That story teaches us that ppl possesed by greed changes the world to worst even if in their own heads they think they do something good (Boromir for example was into that mindset; Nazguls all were Kings of Man). Also the most corruptive thing with The Ring? Noone who seized power will give up willingly, no matter what he/she become. It is about the question "why You want it?". LOTR is based on many myths from our world like for example Kalevala. But in the end it is same story all over.

Like in The Dark Knight with Bale and Leadger. Remeber the Alferd story aobut Birma and "some ppl just want to watch world to burn"? When You build up understanding of that story You will see what it is really about. Birma was under British occupation so Alfred with his collagues was an invading force. That "bad man" who stole all the jewels was protecting his own home, he was stealing wealth that was used to corrupt men in power in his home. So actually he was a good guy and Alfred was a bad guy. And they assignet to him that he is "one that want to see world on fire" but eventually who actually burned that forest? Pll who think they are protecting world from getting burned. Ta da! You see the trick?

Simple. Not easy.

You could argue that, at least early on, Venarius committed the brutalities that he did for the "right" reasons - indeed it turned out to be true, all sorts of beyonders, harbies, breachlords, and eldritch jubblies lay just beyond the fabric of reality - but he broke the second rule of paranormal relations.

(The first rule being, when asked "Are you a god?" you always say, "YES")

That is to say, Rule No. 2: If an entity from Beyond asks you to make a wish, you don't comply. Even if it (they) do not appear capable of actualizing your wish.

sirus went into the venture rather more informed than Venarius, but still had it in his nature to give up hope, and no I don't think he is still alive, or he too would be reliant on a projection to channel all that energy towards destroying us. He wasn't magically "resistant" to temptation, but he was perhaps more resolute and less ideologically-baggaged than the others.

I just wanted to let everyone know that I appreciate you further discussing this topic. It's exactly what I want folks to do when I create these videos: argue passionately over this great game's lore.

As for the main discussion going on about Sirus and his desire for nothing, I disagree. He has a clear motivation once your read his journals in the Atlas: Zana. However, when she leaves with his other companions after the "defeat" of the Elder, something inside him does break. Maybe it's not the Elder's lasting effects, maybe it's just him going insane, becoming empty, and letting the power of the Atlas fill that void. Whatever it is, I hope we get a concrete answer to this mystery, especially about Sirus, in 3.10, 3.11, or 3.12!

Again: thank you for watching.

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As for the main discussion going on about Sirus and his desire for nothing, I disagree. He has a clear motivation once your read his journals in the Atlas: Zana. However, when she leaves with his other companions after the "defeat" of the Elder, something inside him does break. Maybe it's not the Elder's lasting effects, maybe it's just him going insane, becoming empty, and letting the power of the Atlas fill that void. Whatever it is, I hope we get a concrete answer to this mystery, especially about Sirus, in 3.10, 3.11, or 3.12!

I figured it was that having increasingly dulled emotions and experiencing nothing for such a prolonged period of time was his version of going mad compared to the other characters (who were allowed instead to continue exploring the Atlas and conquering its territories). It's emphasized in his fight where he mocks Kirac for being "boring and small" and destroys Oriath hoping to gain any excitement before finally turning to fighting the exile as the answer.

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RJD20 wrote:

...Path of Exile 3.9.0 introduced plenty of lore mysteries to this beloved game; this is one of them.

And for PoE 3.9 GGG has made even more of the endgame content out of reach of casual players. To hell with GGG if they think I'm going to slave that much... another reason that PoE has gone off the rails for casual players. If > 50% of all new players never made it to the endgame before 3.9, they quit before getting to maps from either being pissed off that they lag out or getting one-shot once too often (doesn't matter what boss broke their desire to continue the grind), patch 3.9 with increased boss hp and damage is just increasing new player frustration and upping the quit rate. Even long time casual players like myself are reaching the end of the road for continued playing unless PoE 2 does a huge speed/dps rewind back to before PoE became a twitch shooter speed racing game.

So GGG can introduce all the new lore and content all they want, but if it's all for the streamers/no-lifers and their "more harder" and "git gud or git out" attitude then GGG has lost touch with their player base.

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Arrowneous wrote:

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RJD20 wrote:

...Path of Exile 3.9.0 introduced plenty of lore mysteries to this beloved game; this is one of them.

And for PoE 3.9 GGG has made even more of the endgame content out of reach of casual players. To hell with GGG if they think I'm going to slave that much... another reason that PoE has gone off the rails for casual players. If > 50% of all new players never made it to the endgame before 3.9, they quit before getting to maps from either being pissed off that they lag out or getting one-shot once too often (doesn't matter what boss broke their desire to continue the grind), patch 3.9 with increased boss hp and damage is just increasing new player frustration and upping the quit rate. Even long time casual players like myself are reaching the end of the road for continued playing unless PoE 2 does a huge speed/dps rewind back to before PoE became a twitch shooter speed racing game.

So GGG can introduce all the new lore and content all they want, but if it's all for the streamers/no-lifers and their "more harder" and "git gud or git out" attitude then GGG has lost touch with their player base.

The game is broken, but it's fun to speculate on the jizz-charged emocore magepunk fanfic that is PoE's storyline.

The same reason why dumpy cigarette-stained dock workers and meter maids buy glossy mags about the Royal Family and the Kardashians, or pasty code jockey potato men buy superhero comics and Criterion dvd sets of Bond movies. We'll never live in a castle or drive the Batskiboat across Lake Constance in pursuit of international smugglers, but f me sideways, it's nice to look at.

Although I do wish someone would knock some sense into some mokes in Wraeclast. If it has tentacles, don't diddle it. If it's got curses tattooed and inscribed all over it, give it a pass. Don't throw people into the sea - giant krakens rising to the surface to eat tasty morsels only creates more maelstroms, not less. embedding crystals in your brain without proper antiseptic technique and monitoring, that's bad too. But you can't, and the clownshow of squalor and horror keeps rolling on, and we can't not watch.