Oh noes my zombie life, how ever will they survive...

"

Asmosis wrote:

Ok what bullshit is this? I have an INSANE zombie build that does uber elder but my zombie life is only 100k.

You're pulling some bullshit right now. Maybe you somehow got that much life on your zombies, but it is either STANDARD ONLY, and/or not even a viable build at all that does ZERO damage.

Nice troll tho

"

sarannah101 wrote:

The way it currently is in league, is that zombie life with skilltree and the gem itself is inadequate.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

I had nothing more than a few points on the tree, picked up while pathing elsewhere. No Baron/str stacking, no minion +life items, no minion life gems, etc.

They never died... they face tanked Shaper and Uber-Elder, etc.

But inadequate???

Losing 40% increased life on the gem is largely irrelevant.
There is another +64% on the tree I can pick up to more than make-up for it if needed (which I doubt), or I can just use a minion life gem elder mod...

Anyone that went the baron/str stacking route will have even more...

"

I just ran PoB just to be certain:

1- Just the a 20/20 zombie gem now: Has 11,2k 40% all res 14% phys res

2- The 20/20 zombie gem now with only necro +20% HP and +2 to gems and minion life gem: has 27k HP 40% all res 14% phys res

3-The 20/20 zombie gem now with only necro +20% HP and +2 to gems and minion life gem, discounting the +HP gain/level (that is going to be removed: Has 19k HP 40% all res 14% phys res.

Just by this numbers, with just a minion life your zombies will only rarely be one shotted by a single AoE. But let`s dig deeper!

4- The 20/20 zombie gem now with necro +30% HP, +2 to gems,commander of darkness and Bone Barrier plus 10 minion life nodes and a minion life gem, discounting the +HP gain/level (that is going to be removed): Has 51k HP 75% all res 17% phys red and almost 3k regen/second.

So a zombie with 51k HP will hardly ever die in a game where monsters are balanced around dealing 8-10k damage spikes. And this hp/other defenses can be scaled even further if you feel your zombies are not tanky enough. Of course if you do a triple damage map with projectiles chain they will die, but other than that, they hardly die in 99% of the content.

"

Chalace2 wrote:

"

sarannah101 wrote:

The way it currently is in league, is that zombie life with skilltree and the gem itself is inadequate.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

I had nothing more than a few points on the tree, picked up while pathing elsewhere. No Baron/str stacking, no minion +life items, no minion life gems, etc.

They never died... they face tanked Shaper and Uber-Elder, etc.

But inadequate???

Losing 40% increased life on the gem is largely irrelevant.
There is another +64% on the tree I can pick up to more than make-up for it if needed (which I doubt), or I can just use a minion life gem elder mod...

Anyone that went the baron/str stacking route will have even more...

Woops, I messed up typing that. I meant the zombie life before the 3.8 zombie life buffs were inadequate in leagues(with just tree and zombie gem). Sorry! Will edit it.
In short: base zombie life in 3.8 is ok, Before that it wasn't. Which is why I am against the zombie life nerf.
In the sentence following that mistype I actually did type it out correctly:

"

Regular zombies before 3.8 in league, were usually just one shot by any meaningful boss/few mob hits. Now in blight league zombie life was actually acceptable.

Zombies no longer broken, I'll alert the authorities.

"

sarannah101 wrote:

Woops, I messed up typing that. I meant the zombie life before the 3.8 zombie life buffs were inadequate in leagues(with just tree and zombie gem). Sorry! Will edit it.
In short: base zombie life in 3.8 is ok, Before that it wasn't. Which is why I am against the zombie life nerf.
In the sentence following that mistype I actually did type it out correctly:

"

Regular zombies before 3.8 in league, were usually just one shot by any meaningful boss/few mob hits. Now in blight league zombie life was actually acceptable.

Fair enough.

It still doesn't change my main point tho. 3.8 allowed minion builds to completely ignore every opportunity to take +minion life and still have zombies that can face-tank the end-game bosses, even without The Baron.

--

Hence, the nerf is more than fair. A minion build SHOULD invest in minion life if they want tanky minions. (I never even bothered with regen/leech/minion block, etc, because it was simply not needed)

You can make up the 40% loss on the gem in any number of ways.

Edit: To put it into simple numbers. Just from passives and a gem, I could have gotten 114% more minion life. On top of that there are dozens of items/uniques/jewels/mods to get a silly amount more.

"

Chalace2 wrote:

"

sarannah101 wrote:

Woops, I messed up typing that. I meant the zombie life before the 3.8 zombie life buffs were inadequate in leagues(with just tree and zombie gem). Sorry! Will edit it.
In short: base zombie life in 3.8 is ok, Before that it wasn't. Which is why I am against the zombie life nerf.
In the sentence following that mistype I actually did type it out correctly:

"

Regular zombies before 3.8 in league, were usually just one shot by any meaningful boss/few mob hits. Now in blight league zombie life was actually acceptable.

Fair enough.

It still doesn't change my main point tho. 3.8 allowed minion builds to completely ignore every opportunity to take +minion life and still have zombies that can face-tank the end-game bosses, even without The Baron.

--

Hence, the nerf is more than fair. A minion build SHOULD invest in minion life if they want tanky minions. (I never even bothered with regen/leech/minion block, etc, because it was simply not needed)

You can make up the 40% loss on the gem in any number of ways.

Edit: To put it into simple numbers. Just from passives and a gem, I could have gotten 114% more minion life. On top of that there are dozens of items/uniques/jewels/mods to get a silly amount more.

I have a guardian using baron and my zombies died from things like precinct bosses and nastier map mods on t14+. On pc i switched to montregul's which solved the problem. I think the nerfs (zombie and specter) are more aimed at guardians, every league ggg looks at the tankier hc builds and nerfs.

"

Kurnis wrote:

Ok what bullshit is this? I have an INSANE zombie build that does uber elder but my zombie life is only 100k.

You're pulling some bullshit right now. Maybe you somehow got that much life on your zombies, but it is either STANDARD ONLY, and/or not even a viable build at all that does ZERO damage.

Nice troll tho

It's not trolling, its to prove a point (and also sarcasm. maybe 5% trolling, but no more than that).

The point is if you invest (and i mean really invest like a top tier meta build) then the sky is the limit.

As for gear its +3 elder minion helm, montregul's and a legion jewel which came up for sale several times during blight league (because honestly, there is no legacy standard minion gear).

Obviously they still obliterate anything in front of them, since they are level 29 zombies in a psuedo 6 link +3 elder helm. Not as much damage as a +1 armor w/o minion life ofc, but you wont even notice a difference unless you are using a stopwatch on uber elder phases.

In 3.8 my zombie build did not use:
Montreguls
that fancy legion jewel
minion life support
the minion phys reduction cluster
Any minion life regen other than 1% leading to Spiritual aid
any minion life nodes that did not lead directly to a damage notable (or +minon)

And it still facerolled everything from uber elder to random 8 mod T16 legion packs, the only boss that managed to kill a single zombie was phoenix guardian and he only managed the one.

Take a moment to think about that, absolutely ZERO points, gear, skills, anything invested in protecting the Zombies. That's why they are being balanced.

HoGM obviously facerolled the Zombies, as essentially thats player (HoGM) vs PvE content. I do wonder about minion instability and 400-500k life zombies though, since those would explode like mini nukes.