Additive and multiplicative passives...confused.

I'm quite confused with additive and multiplicative passives. I know "%x increased" means additive and "%x more" means multiplicative. BUT:

First of all how do additive passives stack? For example let's say i have 1000 base ES and i take 2 "8% increased ES" passives, how is the total ES calculated?

is it
(8% + 8%) * 1000 + 1000 = (16% * 1000) +1000 = 1160
OR
(8% * 1000) + 1000 = 1080 \after taking the first passive and then
(8% * 1080) + 1080 = 1166.4 \after the second "8% increased ES", 1080 being the new base ES ?

Then how do multiplicatives work. And will there be any difference if i take 6 "8% increased ES" and then the Infused Shield(20% more ES) or if i take 3 "8% increased ES", then i take the Infused Shield, and then i take 3 more "8% increased ES". Will the final ES be the same?

This is correct:
(8% + 8%) * 1000 + 1000 = (16% * 1000) +1000 = 1160


You second example would mean that the 2nd 8% node is multiplicative

Ok got it, so that is how the multiplicative nodes work. And that means there will be no difference if i take 6 "8% increased ES" and then the Infused Shield(20% more ES) or if i take 3 "8% increased ES", then i take the Infused Shield, and then i take 3 more "8% increased ES". Right?

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Nano0806 wrote:

Ok got it, so that is how the multiplicative nodes work. And that means there will be no difference if i take 6 "8% increased ES" and then the Infused Shield(20% more ES) or if i take 3 "8% increased ES", then i take the Infused Shield, and then i take 3 more "8% increased ES". Right?

Yeah, it doesn't matter :)

Order in which you take passives do not matter. Additive will always stack additively, and multiplicative will always stack multiplicatively. Multiplicative is calculated after additive.

Edit: Multiplicative will stack additively with other multiplicative passive.. I think

Ok, thanks a lot.
Btw one more thing i was wondering if i use fireball with lesser multiple proj and i hit a mob with 2 or 3 fireballs at the same time, in one cast, will it take 2x or 3x the damage of a single fireball?

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Expire wrote:

Order in which you take passives do not matter. Additive will always stack additively, and multiplicative will always stack multiplicatively. Multiplicative is calculated after additive.

Edit: Multiplicative will stack additively with other multiplicative passive.. I think

really? this game's mechanics are so confusing.

Edit: Thought about it and it doesn't make sense, multiplicative should stack multiplicatively with multiplicative passive

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Sisaroth wrote:

Thought about it and it doesn't make sense, multiplicative should stack multiplicatively with multiplicative passive

Take a level'd up LMP/GMP or Chain for example. The reduced and added projectile/overall damaged isn't stacked multiplicatively with each other but additively. The final result will be stacked multiplicatively with the original damage.

Or if there somehow 2 50% more damage passives or affixes, it wont be 150% * 150% = 225% but just 200% since it part of the same roll. It's kinda confusing to figure out all the separate rolls for stats/damage out there.

Edit: K I'm bad at explaining stuff x_x

Basically it's...

Result = (1 + More - Less) * Base * (1 + Increased - Decreased)

Add all the mores and lesses together, then multiply that by the base value and that by the sum of the increases and decreases. You can multiply by the 'more' at any time you like. It's just a separate sum of values, but it doesn't modify the base value any differently than increase. You can think of it as increasing the base value before increase or decrease takes effect, or you can think of it as multiplying the the finished value, after increase or descreases are applied.

In short; add the mores and lesses, add the increases and decreases, use both sums to multiply the base.

All Increased % ES (including bonus from Intelligence) are added together, so if you take 3 8% nodes you get 8+8+8 = 24% increased ES. If you have 3 8% nodes and 100 total intelligence (which is 20% increased ES), you get 8+8+8+20 = 44% increased ES. Let's call this "total increased % ES".

The formula for calculating your TOTAL ES is:

ES gained from equipment * Total increased % ES * 20% MORE ES

This will always be the formula, no matter what order you take the passives. I'm not sure how the MORE ES passive works with the increased defense from shield passives though, I assume it would be something like:

(ES gained from equipment * Total increased % ES + Increased Shield Defenses) * 20% MORE ES

I think that's how it works, it isn't as confusing as you think it is :P

edit: Sines314 nailed it.