In 2019, Diablo 3 and Path of Exile are more alike than you realize.

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gibbousmoon wrote:
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mark1030 wrote:
If decisions don’t matter, why do I keep seeing posts from people who made bad decisions saying they keep dying because the game is broken?


You are saying that noobtraps = genuine decisions.


Noobtrap #1: Corpse explosion from strongboxes

Noobtrap #2: Pop up circles (no idea of the name) when you kill mobs and they explode after a few seconds.

Noobtrap #3: Lightning/coldfire pillars that pop up when a mob dies.

Noobtrap #4: Not capping Elemental resistances.

Noobtrap #5: No movement speed skill fast enough to avoid aforementioned 1-2-3

Noobtrap #6: Little or no leech/regeneration for life/ES...oh...wait...the leech system is not noob level, it is rocket science level to understand the mechanics... (Sarcasm here)

Noobtrap #7: Not being able to avoid the one-shot kill when you got 7k life/ES from Syndicate intervention while you are fighting 4 yellow monsters that just spawned from Legion Monolith... (Sarcasm here too)

Honestly, I have been playing this game from close to 1 year and half. The first year was rough....very rough... Now, it is not that bad. Still sucks to die at 92% experience level 97 however to a stupid Betrayal Incursion encounter. :)
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kestak wrote:

Noobtrap #2: Pop up circles (no idea of the name) when you kill mobs and they explode after a few seconds.


Those are Flame/Frost/Storm Bearers, for future information.
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kestak wrote:
Spoiler
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gibbousmoon wrote:
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mark1030 wrote:
If decisions don’t matter, why do I keep seeing posts from people who made bad decisions saying they keep dying because the game is broken?


You are saying that noobtraps = genuine decisions.


Noobtrap #1: Corpse explosion from strongboxes

Noobtrap #2: Pop up circles (no idea of the name) when you kill mobs and they explode after a few seconds.

Noobtrap #3: Lightning/coldfire pillars that pop up when a mob dies.

Noobtrap #4: Not capping Elemental resistances.

Noobtrap #5: No movement speed skill fast enough to avoid aforementioned 1-2-3

Noobtrap #6: Little or no leech/regeneration for life/ES...oh...wait...the leech system is not noob level, it is rocket science level to understand the mechanics... (Sarcasm here)

Noobtrap #7: Not being able to avoid the one-shot kill when you got 7k life/ES from Syndicate intervention while you are fighting 4 yellow monsters that just spawned from Legion Monolith... (Sarcasm here too)

Honestly, I have been playing this game from close to 1 year and half. The first year was rough....very rough... Now, it is not that bad. Still sucks to die at 92% experience level 97 however to a stupid Betrayal Incursion encounter. :)


For the record, most of what you describe are noob-unfriendly mechanics. That is not at all what I mean when I say "noobtrap."

A noobtrap is a game mechanic (be it a skill gem, or a notable node on the tree, or even an entire Ascendancy class) which is represented, by the game, via its affordances, to be as viable as any other comparable gem, notable, or class--to someone who is not experienced with the game.

As such, noobtraps are a form of player deception. The game indicates to you, "Yes, this really ought to work," but what you should have done is get your information from the internet, not from the game, because the internet will be far more honest with you regarding the relative abilities of all these "choices" the game offers you. This is the definition of "meta." It's also why creating a deliberate meta is a dick move. (Sorry, GGG, but it really is a dick move on your part.)

That said, much of this is peripheral to the point of this thread, since even people who are aware of where the noobtraps are still have most of their (otherwise viable) choices crippled by League mechanics and/or insane (= >10x power differential) imbalances.
Wash your hands, Exile!
Using very strict loot filter makes PoE on par with uninteresting drops which you either ignore or pick up, id and vendor - check

You kill shit fast, ignore what mobs are doing and movement is the king of game - check

Despite having many possibilities in build creation, you end up with couple dominant skills at the end of season that are clearly performing better - check

Character customization end up very limited as the more choice you have, you end up with either no choice or fail choice. D3 gives you no choice so there is no failure. - good similarity

I see how it can be seen alike.
I represent only myself, my own thought and believes. I am individual, not a representative of the community.
I am not speaking on behalf of someone else and I don't get offended by things that have nothing to do with me.

3.13 was the golden age.
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gibbousmoon wrote:


For the record, most of what you describe are noob-unfriendly mechanics. That is not at all what I mean when I say "noobtrap."

A noobtrap is a game mechanic (be it a skill gem, or a notable node on the tree, or even an entire Ascendancy class) which is represented, by the game, via its affordances, to be as viable as any other comparable gem, notable, or class--to someone who is not experienced with the game.

As such, noobtraps are a form of player deception. The game indicates to you, "Yes, this really ought to work," but what you should have done is get your information from the internet, not from the game, because the internet will be far more honest with you regarding the relative abilities of all these "choices" the game offers you. This is the definition of "meta." It's also why creating a deliberate meta is a dick move. (Sorry, GGG, but it really is a dick move on your part.)

That said, much of this is peripheral to the point of this thread, since even people who are aware of where the noobtraps are still have most of their (otherwise viable) choices crippled by League mechanics and/or insane (= >10x power differential) imbalances.


Honestly, this is the beauty of POE. D3 got rid of those noobtraps with sets and implemented a speudo-choice with the CUBE (word sounding with a huge echo). D3 is so limited compared to POE that it is almost like playing Tetris vs Minecraft. A reasonably intelligent person can learn D3 in a month and be comfortable with end game content. POE is a whole another story!!!

On that note, the current trend of POE versions with GGG is to streamline the content and crafting without removing the complexity. Considering the new content release each 3 months, it is really good what they did. I still think they should take a break from one league (maybe a whole flashback event league) and address the top 10-20 game issues and bugs to polish the product instead of doing it little by little. However, as of now, Chris lead that company and its product (POE) very well.
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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:
Well from my point of view that "understanding" is just wrong from the get go. You don't get punished for playing non meta, you only get to enjoy the game for longer.


If the absurd power differentials (and sorry, but anything greater than 10X is, without question, absurd) only led to massive imbalances in economic gain, you three would all have a stronger argument.

But GGG consistently insists on releasing new league material which replaces "optimal build" with "viable build." This is what destroys choice. Nothing else.

If the power imbalances were only about economic disparities, they would still be well-worthy of criticism, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that GGG is destroying the element of choice in its game.


I honestly don't get this point. So GGG nerfs the most powerful skill of a league after the league and it remains "viable" and you call that "destroying choice"? Like what? I would understand if you had atleast argued they made it completely unviable but like this?

Not to mention that, at least in my opinion, this community tends to freak out far more about nerfs than is actually justified. If i just look at Molten Strike which i've played on my chieftain since incursion, it got nerfed i believe twice since then.

Most people here completely wrote of the skill by now. But for me the Chieftain with Moltenstrike is still my most powerful char and the one i go for if i have a tough job to do. So even after 2 consecutive nerfes and being written off by 90% of the community a so called trash skill can still make a char good enough to handle any content comfortably.


I will admit that i haven't tried stuff like Heavy Strike or Glacial Hammer yet but i am rather sure you can make those work as well. Won't be the easy peasy no brainer Cyclone level of gameplay but still good enough for any content.
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gibbousmoon wrote:

"Giddous" is apparently the phonetic pronunciation of my name. Good to know.


Apollogies good sir, fixed and edited for some reason thats what i typed when thinking about you.

A giddy good fellah known as giddous

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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Baharoth15 wrote:
Spoiler
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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:
Well from my point of view that "understanding" is just wrong from the get go. You don't get punished for playing non meta, you only get to enjoy the game for longer.


If the absurd power differentials (and sorry, but anything greater than 10X is, without question, absurd) only led to massive imbalances in economic gain, you three would all have a stronger argument.

But GGG consistently insists on releasing new league material which replaces "optimal build" with "viable build." This is what destroys choice. Nothing else.

If the power imbalances were only about economic disparities, they would still be well-worthy of criticism, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that GGG is destroying the element of choice in its game.


I honestly don't get this point. So GGG nerfs the most powerful skill of a league after the league and it remains "viable" and you call that "destroying choice"? Like what? I would understand if you had atleast argued they made it completely unviable but like this?

Not to mention that, at least in my opinion, this community tends to freak out far more about nerfs than is actually justified. If i just look at Molten Strike which i've played on my chieftain since incursion, it got nerfed i believe twice since then.

Most people here completely wrote of the skill by now. But for me the Chieftain with Moltenstrike is still my most powerful char and the one i go for if i have a tough job to do. So even after 2 consecutive nerfes and being written off by 90% of the community a so called trash skill can still make a char good enough to handle any content comfortably.


I will admit that i haven't tried stuff like Heavy Strike or Glacial Hammer yet but i am rather sure you can make those work as well. Won't be the easy peasy no brainer Cyclone level of gameplay but still good enough for any content.


I'm not talking about nerfs. I'm talking about deliberately creating ridiculously overpowered (with respect to the current league mechanic, usually, though not necessarily) builds.

Quite the opposite of what you just talked about, really.

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Boem wrote:
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gibbousmoon wrote:

"Giddous" is apparently the phonetic pronunciation of my name. Good to know.


Apollogies good sir, fixed and edited for some reason thats what i typed when thinking about you.

A giddy good fellah known as giddous

Peace,

-Boem-


I'm going to be seriously disappointed if you don't refer to me as "giddousmoon," or some derived nickname ("gid?" "gidda?") from now on.

Make my dreams come true. Please.
Wash your hands, Exile!
Last edited by gibbousmoon#4656 on Aug 21, 2019, 9:26:31 AM
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gibbousmoon wrote:


I'm not talking about nerfs. I'm talking about deliberately creating ridiculously overpowered (with respect to the current league mechanic, usually, though not necessarily) builds.

Quite the opposite of what you just talked about, really.


Make my dreams come true. Please.


Then you're missing my point. I am not questioning the fact that there are overpowered skills every league. My point is that it's the players choice to abuse them to the utmost in order to trivialize the gameplay. Same as for the trading.

Nobody is forced to trade and make the fotm to play the game, in fact the game is balanced around NOT doing that, it's balanced in such a way that guys like me can still do all content without trading and without meta skills.

It's like the game has different difficulties and every player has to decide which difficulty he wants to play in. Most people here restrict them selves to only play the easiest mode available despite all the restrictions (skill choice) and pains (trading) that come along with it and then come here to the forum complaining about limited skill choice, too low difficulty and horrible trading (keep in mind that trading is designed to be horrible specifically to deter people from abusing it). It's nothing short of ridiculous imo.
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Baharoth15 wrote:
Nobody is forced to trade and make the fotm to play the game, in fact the game is balanced around NOT doing that, it's balanced in such a way that guys like me can still do all content without trading and without meta skills.


The skill use stats for every League which uses a timer-based mechanic suggest otherwise.

And no one is surprised: There are many builds which are fundamentally incompatible with certain timer-based league mechanics. It doesn't mean they are necessarily underpowered (though they usually are, which is a secondary problem). They just don't play well with DPS checks.
Wash your hands, Exile!

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