One of powercreep's most regrettable aspects : weapon diversity

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I still remember a time where if you wanted to play crit, daggers were the go-to weapon, mostly due to the innate crit chance. Harbinger bows were the best base by far because of the crit implicit. There was an argument to be made for axes, mostly in RT builds.


Now? Foils have more range and a crit mult implicit, in a world where it's extremely easy to cap accuracy with little to no investment due to the amount of accuracy on sword nodes & the Precision aura (where axes mostly still need to go RT in some cases). And sword nodes are extremely good in general, so no questions asked.


In short, if you use an attack skill that can be used with swords, it's likely better to use it by dual wielding foils.

(Also if you can sustain the mana, otherwise it's likely a gemini claw. Hello flicker strike.)


The prime culprit, this league, would obviously be Cyclone, but even then this has been happening for a while. The consistency of Foils prices being light years above every other base shows no hint of dropping - and why should it? They're clearly the best base in the game right now.


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So, the real question is : how is it possible to change that without breaking the game?


There is no easy answer for that, imho. There are hints of what could be with support gems like close combat or shockwave, but I don't think they're build defining / useful enough to make someone switch from a foil to anything else.


One thing that could be a possible way to shake things up would be to use ailments to reinforce weapon identity. For example, give axes the exclusivity of melee bleed nodes (which would also allow axe bleed builds to not take a sword notable just for that, IJS) as well as actual implicits that focus on bleeding; something like can inflict an extra stack of bleeding (so 2 without CD, 9 with it) could be an option? idk. That, or generic bleed damage, or bleeds with this weapon deal damage 10% faster, that kind of stuff).


Daggers are thematically / skilltreetically (I just decided that's a word okay) aligned with poison. So push that even more, maybe ; poisons deal damage faster, poisons inflicted by critical strike with this weapon take 10% of your crit multiplier into account, that kind of stuff. Give us a reason to play dagger with direct poison damage, otherwise claws are generally going to be much better solely because of how good the sustain they give is.


For both daggers and axes, having implicit chance to poison is probably not the best idea, at least for high tier bases ; having it exist in normal/cruel tier bases could also be a way to make ailment-based leveling more realistic


Maces are where I'm at a complete loss. Stun is, to put it bluntly (heh) not the most appealing of mechanics in the current state of the game. Something that could work is make Stun carry either a damage reduction debuff or a damage amplification debuff based on stun duration that is applied for a while after the monster is stunned. The latter is kind of uninspired, I'll agree, as that's basically a physical shock, but meh.

In terms of weapon implicits, you could then have weapons that instead of reducing stun threshold, increase stun duration, or have things like "attacks with this weapon have 5% chance to deal double damage to stunned enemies", that kind of stuff (probably a bit long text for an implicit)


Staves… Yeah. I honestly don't know. Making them a block-centric weapon could be a thing, like, having effects like next attack after blocking deals more damage, but I honestly don't know what staves should be as non-casters weapons. Or maybe I should say "warstaves".


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Which brings me to my (last) point -


I really think we could use more base diversity


At this point, choosing a weapon base is easy, outside of some specific cases (like bleed builds where you'd probably prefer a Reaver or a Royal over a Siege axe, for their innate flat damage), you just take the one that has more dps. If it has a great implicit (jewelled foil), even better. But that implicit does nothing for the identity of the weapon, it's just "does it deal more damage? Yes => take it, no => don't take it."


One choice that is somewhat interesting is with one handed axes


Royal axe : 92.4 pdps, consistent damage, slow
Reaver's Axe : 91.2 pdps, inconsistent damage (but higher highs), slow

Siege Axe : 81.0 base pdps, consistent damage, fast


While for direct damage builds you generally want a siege axe (because of the importance of the flat damage rolls everywhere on your gear), for bleed builds as you only have a limited number of crimson dance stacks, you will rather want to hit hard, yknow? And then reaver's for gamblers (especially if you couple it with a Ryslatha's) while Royal is for the consistent dudes


But the fact that there's a choice to make is a good thing imho. On the other hand of the spectrum, with swords, it's like "Jewelled foil? Yeah, jewelled foil."


Source:- https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/c92kdl/one_of_powercreeps_most_regrettable_aspects/
Last bumped on Jul 7, 2019, 2:24:19 AM
I think someone really spends too much time on reddit...
Yep, totally over league play.
Remember when claws were literally the best weapons, for any melee build tha could use them, for years? I remember.
There's always been one best type and they've never even come close to taking the necessary steps to fix it.
Ancient and unwise, SSF only since 2012
Yeah, definatelly needs better balancing on various bases.

But to fix maces they just need to fix stun. Remove the stun immunities and give a chance to avoid being stunned that is dependent on how long a monster has been stunned recently (10 sec maybe.) Makes stun viable and realiable without being broken.
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Cipp wrote:
But to fix maces they just need to fix stun. Remove the stun immunities and give a chance to avoid being stunned that is dependent on how long a monster has been stunned recently (10 sec maybe.) Makes stun viable and realiable without being broken.


Well, I mean... - https://clips.twitch.tv/GrossVainPangolinHassaanChop
Last edited by Exile009#1139 on Jul 4, 2019, 10:28:10 PM
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鬼殺し wrote:
Yet one more reason why I've some hope in Wolcen. The base weapon types have different basic attack combos with different AoEs for each attack stage, and they have inherent status effect possibilities. I don't think PoE is all that interested in weapon diversity simply because, as with so much else in PoE, it's all just a veneer for the soulless numbers game driving it all.


I saw some gameplay videos recently of it. I'm tempted to buy it because the combat looks very fun.

At the very least, it'll give GGG some good competition and perhaps force them to work towards changing some of the endgame. And, hopefully Wolcen endgame never resembles poe current endgame.
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Exile009 wrote:
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Cipp wrote:
But to fix maces they just need to fix stun. Remove the stun immunities and give a chance to avoid being stunned that is dependent on how long a monster has been stunned recently (10 sec maybe.) Makes stun viable and realiable without being broken.


Well, I mean... - https://clips.twitch.tv/GrossVainPangolinHassaanChop


That's nothing new. Shaper-perma-stun builds exist for leagues now. Tidebreaker HS could do that for ages^^
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Exile009 wrote:
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Cipp wrote:
But to fix maces they just need to fix stun. Remove the stun immunities and give a chance to avoid being stunned that is dependent on how long a monster has been stunned recently (10 sec maybe.) Makes stun viable and realiable without being broken.


Well, I mean... - https://clips.twitch.tv/GrossVainPangolinHassaanChop


Yeah, exactly. Now stun is useless on many occasions (Betrayal being the worst offender here) and broken on others (the shaper example there.) Having a stun avoidance modifier based on time being stunned would remove permastunning and allow stun immunities to be removed without trivializing the whole game.
the problem with weapon diversity in POE is very simple, they attempted to over complicate weapons, by giving too many options. There should be only 2 types of each weapon type, at most, and they ALL should have same base dps/damage, as a one hand sword should be the same dam as one hand axe, and let the builds decide what weapons they want.
IGN:Axe_Crazy

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