Starkonja's Head wording

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Charan wrote:

It's not as though this would be the first time precise, to-the-letter wording has confused players. Increased isn't the same as More? Whaaaat?

What I really regret, is when the big consolidation happened and we settled on More/Less for multiplicative, I didn't take the opportunity to swap out 'reduced' for 'decreased', which I feel more accurately mirrors 'increased'. Every so often I remember that and it starts bugging me for a while.

+1 to above post
Just change it
We're still in betah :)

I just wanted to add that the first time I read this I too misinterpreted it. I was looking through the uniques and came across that one and was like 'wow that seems powerful' and was then considering what I could do with it. Then it dawned on me that the wording was what I would deem ambiguous and I think this is part of the heart of the problem. In and of itself it is ambiguous but I would also concede in some ways it's clear if you step back and think about it and how things are worded in this game. I went back to reread what it said and realized my original error and then correctly interpreted it on my own without having to ask. So there is no reason to assume it reduces damage taken, but one can realize it's ambiguous if they don't get it at first which can then lead them to the proper understanding. Another hint which is what caused me to double back I think is that it just seemed like it would be way too powerful if that's what it meant.

While it kind of threw me at first I kind of like how you guys attempt to word things as precisely as possible (even if it doesn't always work quite so well in some regards). I think a change like coloration would be pretty welcome and would spare things from taking up more space and make things much more clear as to what they meant on first pass. Still word everything as concisely and precisely as possible, but the suggested idea of having negative modifiers in red or something sounded like a pretty good idea. Then you'd immediately see the item has drawbacks and which modifiers are those drawbacks. Another reason for the confusion I think has to do with the fact that this game has items with harmful mechanics which aren't that common in other games (and in other games they're usually pretty clearly negative). This is a negative and it's ambiguously written so it throws some people.

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I'd rather do this than to create a new one talking about something that has already been stated. Making a new thread would also make it look like it's a recent complain, while it's not.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Every modifier, ever, in the game, which is worded as "increased/reduced damage" has always applied to damage dealt.

So, almost three years has passed and there are people, like me, still being mislead by the description on this item in particular.
I'm curious on how would it be a problem (or a "knee-jerk change") just to add the "dealt" and "taken" to every damage modifiers making them specific?

Path of Exile, with all it's literal items and mechanics descriptions, definitely need that.

Um, holy thread necromancy Batman?

But yeah, I do agree on it still being a bit confusing to newer players, or ones who aren't so knowledgeable about the mechanics. 50% reduced damage taken would be so powerful I would not expect any item to have it, so when I saw it at first I went looking for answers and found it was damage dealt that got reduced.

Some things should definitely stay complicated in the game (like the passive skill web) because they are necessary, but something like this that is easily and perfectly clarified by adding a single word to the description are not necessary.

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Mune wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Charan wrote:

It's not as though this would be the first time precise, to-the-letter wording has confused players. Increased isn't the same as More? Whaaaat?

What I really regret, is when the big consolidation happened and we settled on More/Less for multiplicative, I didn't take the opportunity to swap out 'reduced' for 'decreased', which I feel more accurately mirrors 'increased'. Every so often I remember that and it starts bugging me for a while.

+1 to above post
Just change it
We're still in betah :)

Still applies, as the game is clearly in Perpetual Beta.

Refusal to clarify such an easily corrected case of ambiguous wording suggests the underlying intent is passive-aggressive obfuscation.

I thought this thread felt oddly familiar...

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Mune wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Charan wrote:

It's not as though this would be the first time precise, to-the-letter wording has confused players. Increased isn't the same as More? Whaaaat?

What I really regret, is when the big consolidation happened and we settled on More/Less for multiplicative, I didn't take the opportunity to swap out 'reduced' for 'decreased', which I feel more accurately mirrors 'increased'. Every so often I remember that and it starts bugging me for a while.

+1 to above post
Just change it
We're still in betah :)

Oh wow... I'm glad I'm not the only one that stumbles over "reduced" and has to really ponder which type of bonus that is. It's not too late to change this! Decreased is so intuitive, it wouldn't be a difficult adjustment period.

To be honest, I understand this can be confusing for newer player.
By default you will read the mods so it provides an advantage to your character.
Increase damage (you deal)
Reduce damage (you take)

Once you are familiar with the game I guess it's OK. But this game definitively needs some love for the wording, it's just too painful to learn all the small tiny things that at the end makes a huge difference.
I just learn this week the difference between more/increase bonus damage !! That's freaking huge !
Took me weeks at the beginning to get the difference between global/local crit, crit change vs crit change with spell, attack damage/spell damage.

This is not intuitive wording guys. You should reword everything if you want to make this game less difficult to learn. I'm sure you lose players because it's pain the ass to understand stuff.
Knowledge is more important than skills in this game.

The problem with this item is its context - if you take two mods alone, namely "x% Increased damage" and "x% Reduced damage" they both make perfect sense, and are clear what the stand for.

But when you put it on an armor item, you automatically assume that it must be benefit you in some defensive way. The fact that there are items that INCREASE your damage and are armors doesn't change it all that much, because magical shield can amplify your magical power. And it makes sense.

The fact Starkonja's Head is pretty low level unique doesn't help it - most new players could not get the vibe that PoE has with its uniques and their drawbacks. Heck, most new uniques doesn't even have these "negative mods".

Problem is that when you add "dealt", you'll need to add that "dealt" to ever "Increased/Reduced damage"... honestly, I don't think that would be that bad, as it would only make things clear, without too much clutter and useless words. Precise, clear and intuitive.

Also, I would like to add that adding the "dealt" or "taken" on every damage modifiers would make a lot other things, such the translations to other languages that are already happening.
I guess anyone who've had any experience in translating anything should agree that certain terms and words are really hard to translate with the exact intended meaning from the original, and that's why you need to adapt... sometimes just removing or adding another word does the trick, like I suppose it would be in this case..