Racing the witch... or not... early witch build buffs

As seen below and discussed in this post the witch has been virtually eliminated from racing competition. The graphs below illustrate the current dominance of the duelist (which I think is a function of the most experienced players using the "newest" class in terms of last buff)


Below the graphs are some ideas for buffing and a discussion of why the witch isn't used very much (in my limited opinion!)

(HIGHER BARS ARE BETTER IN ALL CASES)

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Sgt_Tastey wrote:

Why doesn't the witch get more love? I love the witch!

Poor tanking and damage early game, damage and tank tracks are distinctly opposite, much like the marauder, making the build seem conceptually awkward. (Compare, say, the templar, where it feels much more natural to take early damage and segue straight in to life). The witch is competitive late due to ranged builds but lacks racing potential.

Range & ES don't compensate as a tanking mechanism early in the game, you simply can't manage enough ES and don't have a good way to recover it quickly, even if you take the delay nodes... and taking the delay nodes means you have even less damage.

I suggest that they

1) Replace the Breaking Some Eggs Glacial Hammer with Infernal Blow, buffing comedy melee fire builds slightly (really niche, but it's better than only having the one elemental option)

2) Add a single strength buffing node to a main path, specifically by changing one of the 8% life nodes to a Fitness notable. Again, this allows for a potential melee race build, increases early tank, and most importantly, allows the witch to access early Str/Int gear for armor protection early.

3) Condense the left side damage nodes to 2 per side (e.g. 2 4.5% cast speed and 2 25% spell crit nodes) and consider reducing the opening spell damage to a single 15% node (compensated for the missing 3% by your next 2 nodes being more powerful and faster access to specific elemental damage). This allows the witch to build up damage more quickly.


4) Consider buffing the elemental damage, spell damage, (or both), trees... Compare the Templar which has 46% increased 2h damage as early as level 5 to a witch who has 18% spell damage and 9% cast speed (or 55% crit chance...). I know spells "compensate" by being ranged and mostly AoE, but the discrepancy here is pretty insane, especially when discussing race builds and the need for speed.

5) Buff ES tanking via a new skill or by giving the witch molten shell, specifically by giving the witch early access to molten shell (which will be usable with the Fitness notable change), or, even better, a freezing shield that does no/low damage but virtually guarantees freezing, and works the same as molten shield. Allowing for magical armor values is an extremely common mechanic and would allow a much better tanking strategy. Introduce this as one of the first 4 rewards (at latest, Brutus.)

6) Swap the location of the ES/Life node (if doing so, place the fitness node at the furthest point away) and the mana nodes. Mana is nice but early survivability is far more key and having to roll through 3 full nodes to get to your first tanking buff is a bit harsh (and was one of the major things changed about the duelist).

7) Lack of combined "effect&attribute" nodes.. witch has to go for the savant node or skip around damage to get any stats at all. In contrast the other attribute-specific classes have these nodes: Rangers have Perfect Aim and Heart of the Panther (and a fitness node nearby-ish), and the Marauder has Heart of the Gladiator and Versatility. (yes witches have Deep Thoughts, but if you don't highway to it, which is pointless, it's MILES away). Duelists have even more options, and templars have TWO dex nodes even though they're STR/INT.

I hate to say it but it really is just a matter of experience. It's certainly a challenge to play as a witch but once you know how to do it they can prove to be quite competitive. Look at Powster for example. He's proven time and time again to shatter expectations for witches and people like myself have only started to catch up to him. Streamers don't play as witches so the strategies and nuances of playing as one aren't as widely known. I've played as a witch in 31 races and I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

I cold aoe everything, here's my problem though, seems the only real way to beat merveil, at least at early levels (for me), takes A) a party or B) fire trap and a lot of time.
Either way, that's what kills my time in any solo race longer than an hour, otherwise I find the witch to be fairly competitive, though squishy yes.
Lost my first witch in the 3 hour party race today in sins level 3, whoever was with me dropped out, but was low anyways, so I was running alone while the rest of the team was making their way to weaver.
Oddly, often times it seems like people wait for me, even as squishy witch, but probably because I run in and freeze everything.

Edit: I love your frozen shield idea, and agree there should be some kind of strength/health nodes closer to make the witch less squishy, but at the same time, squishiness is always a trademark of that kind of caster class; I just wish we could once move away from cold being the mandatory build, so to speak.

Second edit: I keep getting better with the witch, but it IS a challenge, which is part of the fun, and like FILM stated, the nuances are not as well known as say a templar or marauder. Just try googling witch race videos or guides, they are next to non-existent.

I honestly keep finding myself going back to the witch after I run something else for a while.

I assume were talking solo races here. Witch is competitive with everyone else in groups.

Id say her main weakness is low dps from mid a2 onward, though since the the major race rewards are all class specific its not really an issue. Merveil shouldnt be a problem, she goes down fine with fireball and a pair of sapphires.

Currently i see witch as the most challenging class to solo with in 3+ hour races and i think thats just fine.

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KoTao wrote:

I assume were talking solo races here. Witch is competitive with everyone else in groups.

Id say her main weakness is low dps from mid a2 onward, though since the the major race rewards are all class specific its not really an issue. Merveil shouldnt be a problem, she goes down fine with fireball and a pair of sapphires.

Currently i see witch as the most challenging class to solo with in 3+ hour races and i think thats just fine.

The issue is getting survivability AND dps early, which is why I was suggesting condensing the early damage nodes and moving the tank nodes in a bit (of course, then you're basically required to take clarity, but that's common anyways).


RE: Competitiveness, sure, it's ok, but let's put it this way. I sucked pretty hard (IMO) during the team race running a solo race. I've raced enough to have a good sense of the overall tactics, but my nuances on the witch were indeed weak (I was rolling a fire trap that I forgot I didn't have the dex to upgrade and realized halfway through A2 that I was throwing a 4-7 damage firetrap... yeah... 16% quality though!)

My effort, ending at a rather pithy L21, got me 24th in witches. If I had run the EXACT same race during the solo race i would have gotten EIGTH in witches. Yes this partially means that nobody is running the witch, yes, but that eighth place "in class" finish was good for.... 161st overall.

Here's the breakdown of the top 20 witches in the solo race by overall Ranking:

20
45
48
60
110
124
156
202
217
224
226
227
229
233
253
259
279
292
299
318


Yeah... witches getting BONUS points for class ranking were 318th place in the race... I'd say that demonstrates buffable weakness (keep in mind pre-duelist-buff, the Duelist looked vaguely like this as well)

Difference is that duelist had a poor starting location overall, while witch is fine mid~late game and when not rushing (es nodes make for solid early survivability if you hit and run).

The damage dropoff from mid a2 onward is more to do with the lack of a strong damage multiplying gem (lmp, wpn elem etc) and the minimal damage gain from most gear upgrades (+1 elem items aside, but those cant be counted on). Witches offensive nodes are fine, you can have ~100% increased damage of your chosen element by around 25 (not counting gear, just nodes) and still fit a life ring in.

As for those stats- expected, and i dont see it as an issue. Witch being harder to succeed with in races also means she has less in-class competition, so the risk:reward is roughly even with the other classes.

The Problem with the witch is that most ES items in act 2 aren't strong enough to take heavy hits.

You can easily get killed at Broken Bridge/Weavers Chambers.

A witch might be viaable on a 5h races since by level 3x you should have got enough nodes to rush certain areas.

The places of lifenodes is the main problem why a witch slows down in act2.
You must take them but damage and defensive nodes are far away.

Something that might work well with a witch could a be Molten Shell like spell against projectiles that eats projectiles up to certain damage and fills mana/ES or HP.

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Hilbert wrote:

Something that might work well with a witch could a be Molten Shell like spell against projectiles that eats projectiles up to certain damage and fills mana/ES or HP.

A classic :) Please post this as a separate suggestion maybe?

Also, how do we make sure the Marauders etc. won't take it too and end up even more tanky, together with spellcasting DPS abilities AND anti-projectile aura :\

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KoTao wrote:

Difference is that duelist had a poor starting location overall, while witch is fine mid~late game and when not rushing (es nodes make for solid early survivability if you hit and run).

The damage dropoff from mid a2 onward is more to do with the lack of a strong damage multiplying gem (lmp, wpn elem etc) and the minimal damage gain from most gear upgrades (+1 elem items aside, but those cant be counted on). Witches offensive nodes are fine, you can have ~100% increased damage of your chosen element by around 25 (not counting gear, just nodes) and still fit a life ring in.

As for those stats- expected, and i dont see it as an issue. Witch being harder to succeed with in races also means she has less in-class competition, so the risk:reward is roughly even with the other classes.

Which is fine, the problem is between level 14-25; you're effectively forced to take the tank FIRST to get some measure of tank (and still can't spare the nodes for ES delay reduction, so you run around a lot), so you end up doing really awful DPS up through farming in A2.

It's not AWFUL, I think there's some good tweaks (move tank ring in, consolidate some early damage, etc.) that can make the late A1-mid A2 build far more viable, which is a critical part of virtually every solo race, determining how well you can make it to A3 in longer races, and how well you farm to the end in a 1 or 2 hour race.

Again, I'm not "whining the witch is totally broken" I just think there's some pretty clear weaknesses that can be addressed by either the mentioned addition of skills, movement of some early nodes, or some combination.



Speaking of which, I noticed the witch has virtually NO +stat nodes with additional effects

Marauder gets Versatility (+20/+20 int/dex) and Heart of the Gladiator (+20 Str / +30 Life)

Duelist gets Master of the Arena, Acceleration (+dmg/speed and +attributes), also water dancing, mana flows (with +10 int), fury bolts (which inexplicably has +20 Str)

Templar gets 2x Precision (+20 Dex/+Accuracy), Swashbuckler/Slaughter (+Dmg/+Str)

Shadow gets Acceleration (+Dex/+Speed), Mental Acuity (+Crit/+int), A fitness node (+str/+life)

Ranger gets Heart of the Panther/Finesse/Perfect Aim (all +Dmg/+Dex), A fitness node (*admittedly a bit further out, but you don't have to highway there), and semi-available access to might and savant nodes




Witch gets... Deep Wisdom(+mana/+int... 4 from the start if you highway, which makes the stat bonus pointless, 7 out if you go through ES DELAY nodes which aren't too useful early). The nearest notable... anything that's not INT... is 8 highway nodes away, a might and agility set...

IOW the witch gets completely screwed on both versatility AND raw stat improvements. The Deep Wisdom node desperately needs to be moved to the right side of the mana ring on the way to the tank, at a bare minimum... an "Arcane might" or "Arcane Speed" node (+effect/+str, +effect/+dex, respectively) would be massively appreciated... or even a node similar to the Mara node (say, "Arcane Ability", +20str/+20dex) would be good.

Those special nodes are not the problem.


The problem is that you have to walk 2 paths and 1 path isn't good.


Example 1:
You take life nodes, at the ES part--->Next lifenodes 7 points away


Example 2:
You got one offensive way-> First nodes in 4 more levels.

This leaves 2 break out options one towards the Templar and 1 towards the shadow Tree.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.