So who wants to explain to me why Astramentis is ridiculously overpriced

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Slizzered wrote:

Imagine thinking constantly reiterating the hackneyed term "salty" means you're making a good point instead of making yourself sound like an pisspoor with an extremely limited vocabulary. No surprise that someone who has only been around a year wouldn't have a goddamn clue what they're talking about and the only person that supports their so-called argument is a guy everyone knows to be a complete scumbag. Prime example of people who know nothing yet think they should express their opinion.


Just had some clown trying to charge me 40C for a six socket Iron Commander (read that properly I said socket not link), got some damn good laughs out of that one. But of course accoring to this guy with his whopping one year of experience that should be its price since there might be someone out there stupid enough to pay it.

Nobody says you have to buy it, if you don’t like he price of something move on. I would say a bigger reason why people are quitibg this game in droves is some loser, like you whom doesn’t like their price on the TB will harass and spam them for hours swearing and whatever. If you want pc prices go play pc, such a massive complainer.

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Jiff69 wrote:

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Slizzered wrote:

Imagine thinking constantly reiterating the hackneyed term "salty" means you're making a good point instead of making yourself sound like an pisspoor with an extremely limited vocabulary. No surprise that someone who has only been around a year wouldn't have a goddamn clue what they're talking about and the only person that supports their so-called argument is a guy everyone knows to be a complete scumbag. Prime example of people who know nothing yet think they should express their opinion.


Just had some clown trying to charge me 40C for a six socket Iron Commander (read that properly I said socket not link), got some damn good laughs out of that one. But of course accoring to this guy with his whopping one year of experience that should be its price since there might be someone out there stupid enough to pay it.

Nobody says you have to buy it, if you don’t like he price of something move on. I would say a bigger reason why people are quitibg this game in droves is some loser, like you whom doesn’t like their price on the TB will harass and spam them for hours swearing and whatever. If you want pc prices go play pc, such a massive complainer.

It's easier to complain about something and make ridiculous claims about "statistics" with no proof.

Slizzered, it's sad when you got to play the "only been around for x time" card. Pretty telling you're at the end of your rope. It's also sad when a guy like me who has only been around for less than 2 leagues has more common sense than a guy like you who presumably has been around for longer?

Salty is pretty fitting. Just calling it like I see it. However, I got nothing personal against you. You're just misguided and misinformed. Astramentis is still yours if you want it.

Ratios are an extremely simple concept yet for some reason they seem to bafle you people. You constantly claim prices should be higher due to less sellers because of population difference yet somehow overlook the inverse that would mean there are less buyers in similiar proportions, a simple concept yet somehow people struggle grasp it or most likely refuse to acknowledge it because then they'd have no leg to stand on in their feeble attempts to justify these exorbitant prices.

Hell, just look at the clowns who popped up to try to take shots (one going as far to make the laughably idiotic claim that I would waste any of my time harassing others over pixels) because they can't comprehend what's being discussed. If you have no clue what's going on it's best to avoid posting inane drivel.

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Slizzered wrote:

Ratios are an extremely simple concept yet for some reason they seem to bafle you people. You constantly claim prices should be higher due to less sellers because of population difference yet somehow overlook the inverse that would mean there are less buyers in similiar proportions, a simple concept yet somehow people struggle grasp it or most likely refuse to acknowledge it because then they'd have no leg to stand on in their feeble attempts to justify these exorbitant prices.

Hell, just look at the clowns who popped up to try to take shots (one going as far to make the laughably idiotic claim that I would waste any of my time harassing others over pixels) because they can't comprehend what's being discussed. If you have no clue what's going on it's best to avoid posting inane drivel.

A simple concept, don’t like the price don’t buy it.

It wouldn’t surprise me you waste your time crying over pixels through the Tb. After all you’re here crying over pixels.

You should take your own advice and stop posting. Because you clearly have no idea what’s going on. You do have the whining down pat, I’ll give it that.

Aside from crying do you have anything constructive, or are you just making another pointless post to cry about things.

Markets require a certain critical mass before prices do what economists say they do. Astramentis is a pretty good useful item but not endgame. This league it is a stopgap for people running an MS Occultist build with HOWA. On PC there are enough so that market makers will find a price. On Xbox there are people holding out hoping a sucker will pay. Because there aren't enough player/the trade system is clunky, you don't get market makers (people willing to take some risk and flip items). This means you don't get known prices. This could be an opportunity for people who like to play Path of Trading but really annoying for people who like to play Path of Exile. It also means we shouldn't hate the middleman.

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themightypuck wrote:

Markets require a certain critical mass before prices do what economists say they do. Astramentis is a pretty good useful item but not endgame. This league it is a stopgap for people running an MS Occultist build with HOWA.

Thanks for the info; this seems a very plausible answer to OP's original question.

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themightypuck wrote:

On PC there are enough so that market makers will find a price. On Xbox there are people holding out hoping a sucker will pay. Because there aren't enough player/the trade system is clunky, you don't get market makers (people willing to take some risk and flip items). This means you don't get known prices. This could be an opportunity for people who like to play Path of Trading but really annoying for people who like to play Path of Exile. It also means we shouldn't hate the middleman.

Personal opinion of course, but I see nothing helpful (other than helping themselves) in the actions of flippers. A true market maker provides liquidity for an item to a market, but they respond to market movements rather than trying to control the price. From Wikipedia:

A market maker or liquidity provider is a company or an individual that quotes both a buy and a sell price in a financial instrument or commodity held in inventory, hoping to make a profit on the bid-offer spread, or turn.[1][2] The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission defines a "market maker" as a firm that stands ready to buy and sell stock on a regular and continuous basis at a publicly quoted price.

Perhaps the market player that you were thinking of having value is a speculator, someone who buys at current prices in the expectation that prices will go up (or maybe a form of time based arbitrage (yes, perhaps an oxymoron) where prices can be expected to rise over the initial course of a League). I can see room for debate about such players providing something of value in return for what they add to the price of items. But speculation provides both market liquidity and additional end cost of items. Personally, I think that we have far more of the latter in the POE Xbox market.

As you pointed out, the current market is not big enough to act according to theoretical norms (but few markets are). This adds to the annoyance of speculators because they are not consigned to a passive role - they also have potential price fixing ability. It's one thing to guess that prices will go up; it is another to make that happen.

Generally middle persons add a margin to the price and may or may not provide something useful in return. My own observations indicate that we have a lot of margin being added and little usefulness generated in return. If it makes one feel better, I see no reason not to take a dim view of speculators and price fixers. But just do not expect it to change anything.

This is obviously not a place for arguments about controversial topics in economics. I'll just say that it is my opinion that the size of the xbox market means prices do not converge. This causes many sellers to hold out for nothing later since they don't want to get taken advantage of. When you have a critical mass of traders like on PC this happens less. People want cash now to spend on other cool stuff. It is a virtuous circle.

It is also my observation that the PC market has at least two influential components that appear lacking in the Xbox market: a farm bot army and an established crafting community.

The first puts pressure on sellers to unload quickly in the season anything that can be attained by bots, and eventually, saturates the market in those items.

The second provides really cool stuff (often cooler than can be found) for players to aspire to and save for. It provides an incentive to sell stuff to get exalts.

So that rounds out the virtuous circle: slave/robot labour and high end luxury goods.

I also expect that in the Xbox market, there are too many players at the high end of competence to be supported by the players of lesser competence (a legacy of the port from PC and the subsequent influx of cross-over players arriving already market savvy). So we not only need more players, we need our pyramid shape normalized a bit.

But it is going to take time for the Trade Market to stabilize.

Wonder how long it took the PC trade market to do it.
The game came out in 2013 on PC, was it 1 year, 3 years, 5 years.

I see folks on the PC complaining about the prices of Exalts.
180c per is pretty damn high.

The game has only been on Xbox 1 for 1 year 4 months.
So it is going to take some time for it finally even out.


As a side note.

Last night I checked there are a total of 50 Astramentis on the Xbox Betrayal Trade market, both online and offline.
So this is half of what I noticed from POE Trade
(100 posted on the first scroll down, there could be more in there)

The lowest amount posted to sell as 45c.
The highest amount posted to sell was 5ex.
(Must have been right at the beginning of the league)

There were a bunch in there that did not have a price listed to sell.
These are the ones you should be hitting up for sales.
You offer 20 - 30c and see what happens.
You might get someone that has had it for a while and had no offers and now is just looking to get what they can get for it as they need the Choas now, to get something they want.

Again you have to do some shopping around.

Or move over to PC, and then start to complain over there that you have to trade face to face and why can't it be like on Xbox, and the Chineses Servers and soon to be PS4 where they have a trade board.

Or better yet, go to PS4 when it comes out get all the Astramentis. Put one up at 10ex, then put the rest of what you have up at 4ex, and folks will see oh hey, screw that 10ex and start buying all you have at 4ex.

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xPeleusx wrote:

There were a bunch in there that did not have a price listed to sell.
These are the ones you should be hitting up for sales.
You offer 20 - 30c and see what happens.
You might get someone that has had it for a while and had no offers and now is just looking to get what they can get for it as they need the Choas now, to get something they want.

An issue with xbox is inactive traders who just throw stuff in public tabs. You get a lot of dead air trying to buy unpriced items but sometimes it works. I tend to filter by price because it wastes less time if the trader is actually engaged in trading.