trying to understand shock mechanics

i dont quite understand how its explained in poe wiki.
it says that u can get up to 50% more dmg when an enemy is shocked with lightning damage, but its not necessarily 50% more dmg? it can be a "weaker" shock? pob only shows 50% more dmg i assume, so its not appropriate?

i have a char: https://pastebin.com/y38qiFRP
his only scource of lightning damage is phys to light sup gem and he crits quite constantly.
does that mean that he applies shock (50% more dmg) to every monster, even uber elder or is the pob shock dmg calc misleading?
Last bumped on Dec 2, 2018, 8:07:33 AM
The shock effect is higher the larger hits you deal to the enemy. If you dont deal 1% of the enemy's life in 1 hit, no shock effect will be applied. If you deal 10% of the enemy's life in 1 hit, you apply 50% shock effect.

I think I have this right, but I'm not an expert.
The lower threshold is 1% shock effect, not 1% of HP. Assuming no increased effect of shock modifiers, hits need to deal 0.2% of the enemies' life to apply any shock at all.

Now, regarding Path of Building. The checkbox for shocked actually hasn't been updated since the shock mechanic was changed from its former binary state, so checking "shocked" usually does not reflect the accurate dps against enemies with high life pool. It's entirely possible that you can reach 50% shock effect on trash mobs of course.

I currently can't check your PoB link because I'm on my phone. Here's the workaround that I use for my shock calculations in PoB (slightly long, slightly tedious, relatively reliable):

Spoiler
Note: I'm assuming a crit build. If you don't have reliable crits, skip the steps relevant to crit multiplier and use shocking hits based on your cumulative shock chance rather than crit chance.

Copy the mod "Enemies take 5% increased Damage for each type of Ailment you have inflicted on them" from Yoke of Suffering (or this post, it should be the same) and add it to one of your items, tick another elemental ailment that doesn't influence your dps otherwise, then adjust the value to your actual shock effect.

Now, to see what your actual shock effect might be, you can go for a certain threshold (let's say 70% of your max damage roll for example), multiply it with your crit multiplier, and you have a more or less reasonable magnitude for a shocking crit.

Then, divide this by your expected enemy's hp (e.g. 18328731 for Shaper if poedb is accurate), multiply it by 5, and round down to two digits after 0. That is your expected shock effect for the time being.

At this point you should use the mod I mentioned earlier.

Now you can multiply the number of shocking hits per second (you only need to consider crits if you have any significant investment into crit multiplier) with your shock duration. This is the number of relevant shocking hits to potentially maintain the previous shock effect.

Calculate backwards for the base damage you need to maintain the shock effect you assumed to reach earlier:

Divide the shock effect by 5 and multiply it with your expected enemy's HP, then divide it by your crit multiplier.

Subtract the minimum damage roll from the required damage roll and divide the result by the difference between the max and the min damage roll. The result is your chance to not maintain the current shock effect with a single hit.

Calculate the result of this to the n-th power, where n is the number of potentially shock reapplying hits, and subtract the result from 1. You now (finally) have your chance to maintain the current shock effect. If the chance is unsatisfactory, go back to the start and pick a lower estimated base damage roll for the initial shocking hit.

Unfortunately, calculating a true average shock effect is much more complicated (it involves picking the average highest roll of all potentially shock reapplying hits, and it gets more complicated if you try to include outliers that increase subsequent shock magnitudes). But this should give you an idea of a realistic shock effect for your build. I would personally go for roughly an 80% chance to maintain a certain shock effect. It's likely that your average shock effect will actually be higher, but it would be a fairly reasonable estimate of what you get reliably.
that spoiler is too complicated. ill probably need 2 hours of pure thinking to understand it if i manage it at all^^

i actually just wanna find out how much lightning damage (crit based) i need to be able to apply 50% more dmg taken to shaper, red elder, guardians, uber elder

i just thought its easier if i add my pob
Increased damage from shock is capped at 50% at 10% of the target's maximum life dealt by Lightning damage. The Shaper has approximately 18 500 000 life.
1 850 000 damage should be dealt for maximum effect of shock (50%) without
any increased Shock effect (37000 damage for 1% shock effect).

We are talking about singl hit damage here (not DPS).

PoB is misleading in this case.

Just to note that Elementalist's Beacon of Ruin and the Ascendant's Elementalist Ascendancy skills works a bit differently.

My previous post was incorrect. I am removing it.
Last edited by CapnSparrow#0441 on Nov 28, 2018, 10:35:48 AM
You should literally assume that you are never shocking high-tier bosses with your Hits unless you are an elementalist. Elementalists have a passive that lets them shock high-tier bosses for 20% increased damage taken. With 150% increased shock effect, that could become the full 50%, but chances are you're not gonna bother stacking that much.

The ways to shock high-tier bosses as a non-elementalist are vessel of vinktar and Vaal Lightning Trap. These two sources specify *exactly* how much increased damage enemies will take (10% for vessel, 15% for VLT).
"
codetaku wrote:
You should literally assume that you are never shocking high-tier bosses with your Hits unless you are an elementalist.

Unless you're playing heavy strike starforge with double damage jewels, ruthless and huge crit multi. When that stuff procs together, you easily deal >10% of mino's health. :)
3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519
The bottom line is that if you deal enough damage to significantly shock your enemies, you won't need the bonus to your damage.

Otherwise you can assume it has some effect on trash mobs and a smaller one on bosses.

For more precise optimisation of builds, my method sadly seems to be one of the best options available.

The next best step would be simulating 10000 hits and use the average damage / shock effect.

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