Please help to sort out Voidforge mechanic.

Hey guys how Voidforge works with gems like cold to fire? will it convert 50% of cold to fire when attack choose to hit with 300% cold element? what about elemental damage with attack gem? will it benefit from it after phys is converted to a random element?

And also will Combat Focus Cobalt Jewel :
Elemental Hit deals (10-15)% increased Damage
With 40 total Intelligence and Dexterity in Radius, Elemental Hit cannot choose Fire
work with Voidforge random element choise?

Many many thx for some one who can give me a clean answer.
Last bumped on Jun 26, 2018, 7:07:25 AM
Ok let me give it a shot.

Cold to fire supoort: "Supported Skills have 50% of Cold Damage Converted to Fire Damage"
Voidforge: "Gain 300% of Weapon Physical Damage as Extra Damage of an Element"

Even though these are worded differently, they are both actually 'conversion'. Only difference is what happens to the original damage. From the wiki:

" Converted to modifiers replace the original damage with the new damage, while added as preserves the original damage, adding the new damage to the total. These two modifiers do not interfere with one another in any way."

So they both will happen with no interference with each other. Remember that Voidforge is giving you 300% of WEAPON physical damage. Not 300% of your final total physical damage.
In fact, as a rule, conversion will ALWAYS happen before any increases, reductions etc happen so conversion will NEVER happen on final damage values (because you haven't got them yet).

Now I am assuming based on the jewel question that you are asking about ele hit.

Ele hit: "Only Deals Damage of the chosen Element. Deals no Damage of other Damage Types"

So now let us say you attack with ele hit while wielding voidforge. During the calculation, Ele hit chooses Fire. Voidforge chooses cold. In this example, your entire voidforge bonus damage was wasted. Voidforge gives you a bunch of cold damage and Ele hit negates it completely. Getting the bonus on ele hit (without threshold jewels) is pure RNG. You need ele hit to choose and element and in that attack Voidforge to choose the same element.

Typically the way to build ele hit is to convert all damage to fire, then use two jewels to ensure ele hit always chooses fire. Now, no matter what element voidforge chooses, you'll convert that 300% damage into fire and always get the full benefit. Easiest way to get this is Avatar of fire (or xoph's blood) + CtF support + Call of the brotherhood.


Hope that helps,
~Myth
"
Mythkiller wrote:
Ok let me give it a shot.

Cold to fire supoort: "Supported Skills have 50% of Cold Damage Converted to Fire Damage"
Voidforge: "Gain 300% of Weapon Physical Damage as Extra Damage of an Element"

Even though these are worded differently, they are both actually 'conversion'. Only difference is what happens to the original damage. From the wiki:

" Converted to modifiers replace the original damage with the new damage, while added as preserves the original damage, adding the new damage to the total. These two modifiers do not interfere with one another in any way."

So they both will happen with no interference with each other. Remember that Voidforge is giving you 300% of WEAPON physical damage. Not 300% of your final total physical damage.
In fact, as a rule, conversion will ALWAYS happen before any increases, reductions etc happen so conversion will NEVER happen on final damage values (because you haven't got them yet).

Now I am assuming based on the jewel question that you are asking about ele hit.

Ele hit: "Only Deals Damage of the chosen Element. Deals no Damage of other Damage Types"

So now let us say you attack with ele hit while wielding voidforge. During the calculation, Ele hit chooses Fire. Voidforge chooses cold. In this example, your entire voidforge bonus damage was wasted. Voidforge gives you a bunch of cold damage and Ele hit negates it completely. Getting the bonus on ele hit (without threshold jewels) is pure RNG. You need ele hit to choose and element and in that attack Voidforge to choose the same element.

Typically the way to build ele hit is to convert all damage to fire, then use two jewels to ensure ele hit always chooses fire. Now, no matter what element voidforge chooses, you'll convert that 300% damage into fire and always get the full benefit. Easiest way to get this is Avatar of fire (or xoph's blood) + CtF support + Call of the brotherhood.


Hope that helps,
~Myth


Thx you so much, its now more clean for me, but still im not sure what then the best way to scale damage.
Could you please tell me if adds to x-y phys damage to attacks like steel ring will be added to initial sword phys damage and benefit from this 300% random element damage.

Also please could you confirm if i understand it correctly. melee phys damage support will not benefit from 300% elemental but elemental focus support will.

What is a best gem setup for non crit build using this sword then.

Many thx again!
"
Emperor_home wrote:

Could you please tell me if adds to x-y phys damage to attacks like steel ring will be added to initial sword phys damage and benefit from this 300% random element damage.


Yes.

"
Also please could you confirm if i understand it correctly. melee phys damage support will not benefit from 300% elemental but elemental focus support will.


No. Damage modifiers apply based on any damage type a piece of damage has ever been. So, if you had only Voidforge and a Steel Ring equipped, Melee Physical Damage Support would apply to all of the damage you deal (as I like to say, 100% of your damage. This includes the 300% of weapon damage gained as an element.) Elemental Focus will also benefit 100% of the damage you actually deal. You might think of the added damage as "phys->element" damage, so that for example if it chose lightning, then physical damage bonuses, lightning damage bonuses, and elemental damage bonuses would all apply to that packet of damage. Melee Physical Damage Support won't, however, increase damage you get from "flat elemental" such as "Adds x to y lightning damage" found on rings.

"

What is a best gem setup for non crit build using this sword then.


others should answer this one because I'm not so big on questions of "what is best" just "how it works"
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"
adghar wrote:
"
Emperor_home wrote:

Could you please tell me if adds to x-y phys damage to attacks like steel ring will be added to initial sword phys damage and benefit from this 300% random element damage.


Yes.

"
Also please could you confirm if i understand it correctly. melee phys damage support will not benefit from 300% elemental but elemental focus support will.


No. Damage modifiers apply based on any damage type a piece of damage has ever been. So, if you had only Voidforge and a Steel Ring equipped, Melee Physical Damage Support would apply to all of the damage you deal (as I like to say, 100% of your damage. This includes the 300% of weapon damage gained as an element.) Elemental Focus will also benefit 100% of the damage you actually deal. You might think of the added damage as "phys->element" damage, so that for example if it chose lightning, then physical damage bonuses, lightning damage bonuses, and elemental damage bonuses would all apply to that packet of damage. Melee Physical Damage Support won't, however, increase damage you get from "flat elemental" such as "Adds x to y lightning damage" found on rings.

"

What is a best gem setup for non crit build using this sword then.


others should answer this one because I'm not so big on questions of "what is best" just "how it works"


Thx you so much m8! you helps alot!
For 'what gem works best', best suggestion I can give is to download PoB (Path of building https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding). Setup your build in there and optimizing it becomes significantly easier.

PoB will sort support gems for you by DPS, among a thousand other features. It is easily the single best way to theorycraft/experiment in PoE with builds.

~Myth
"
Mythkiller wrote:

So they both will happen with no interference with each other. Remember that Voidforge is giving you 300% of WEAPON physical damage. Not 300% of your final total physical damage.
In fact, as a rule, conversion will ALWAYS happen before any increases, reductions etc happen so conversion will NEVER happen on final damage values (because you haven't got them yet).


Clearing things here: While conversion happens before modifiers, all of the modifiers still apply. You can (and should) use Melee Physical Damage Support, and it will increase your final damage. You can (and should) use flat physical damage from other sources than your weapon (steel rings, Abyssus and so on).

Ps. Path of Building does not account for Voidforge's 300% added damage. You will not see calculated DPS. You pretty much have to guess here, but TBH you can just get any phys based weapon and fully convert to elemental, tinker around the supports for best DPS and then simply swap in Voidforge.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
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Last edited by Perq on Jun 26, 2018, 6:40:22 AM
"
Perq wrote:

Ps. Path of Building does not account for Voidforge's 300% added damage. You will not see calculated DPS. You pretty much have to guess here, but TBH you can just get any phys based weapon and fully convert to elemental, tinker around the supports for best DPS and then simply swap in Voidforge.


Welp, forgot about how voidforge is worded.

You can get PoB to more or less calculate the damage by doing this:
In items, click on 'Create custom...'
Copy voidforge text in there (Ctrl+C in game, then paste here)
Replace the 300% line with 'Gain 300% of Weapon Physical Damage as Extra Cold Damage' (you can use any element here assuming you are full converting all elements to fire using AoF/CotB/CtF)

I haven't done this with Voidforge explicitly but I'd imagine this works fine.

~Myth

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