Incursion was great, until it made me realize the cornerstone of PoE

Like a lot of people, I friggin' loved incursion. It was engaging from level 3 onward and while not every build could properly do incursions the loot rain and XP you'd get from downing even a few packs made it worth the detour. However, as I got higher level(Currently low 90s) and continued going through the motions of the league, it actually tipped me off to something that borderline ruins this game from my perspective.

Compounded. RNG. It seems like with every new league we get closer and closer to the event horizon of the RNG void. Now, I'm not a man that opposes RNG, a certain amount is actually healthy and fulfilling for a lot of video games sans the ones with a competitive/"e-sport" scene. But at this point PoE's gotten almost completely out of control with it.

This is the incursion league breakdown:
Step 1: Roll the dice on the starting rooms of your temple.
Step 2: Roll the dice for what room alva sends you to.
Step 3: Roll the dice for what upgrades that room has.
Step 4: Repeat Step 2 and 3 11 times.
Step 5.1: Roll the dice on how many chests/etc you'll get from that room.
Step 5.2: Roll the dice on the corruptions and hope you don't brick something valuable.

This is just one singular instance stemming from a league mechanic. The only semblance of control we as players have is what doors get opened and even then you can get screwed over(It doesn't happen often but it does happen). After a couple weeks of incursion it feels like I'm playing dungeons and dragons 5th edition. Except D&D 5e at least has what's known as "bounded accuracy", where even when you're rolling metric crap tons of dice, everything lands within a certain margin.

The biggest issue I find with PoE is the unrestrained dependence on RNG as a replacement for real challenge. There's very little skill involved, if you have a decent build while slamming down flasks like they're tic-tacs, there's very little you'll struggle with. Your build either can do a certain bit of content, or it can't. There's virtually no in-between. The reason why gambling is so addictive is it literally takes control away from you. You have no influence on the odds and simply put PoE has turned into a digital roulette table(Or perhaps it always was and it just never occurred to me).

Divination cards were an excellent idea, as were master crafting benches and vendor recipes. It gave players consistent options to curb some of the rampant RNG in PoE, but with more and more dice being added to the game, there have been no steps taken to maintain a healthy equilibrium between skill/time and "RNJesus, take the wheel".

Rant over, obligatory tl;dr for the small-minded trolls so their trolling is at least on topic: Too much RNG, too little difficulty, [Removed by Support]

RNG based 'games' are made this way so even bad players can be winners.

Joe Clumsy, drunk, double-left-handed, half-blind and with a black-and-white monitor can find a Mirror of Kalandra. but he has ZERO chances in any kind of skill-based game. thats why games are less about skill and more about RNG.

you want to broaden the audience and there are not that many truly good gamers. so you reach lower and lower. reward 'participation' (despite it showing more and more that rewarding participation instead of accomplishments is counterproductive).

it is all about making players feel that THEY can do it.

sure, you can game this system, you can spin the RNG wheel more often (Aka play efficiently using MF cookie cutter doing mid-tier maP), you can create artificial challenges - current POE artificial challenge is 'more money' despite there not being a real reason to farm it with how easy even the top-end-game is trivialized with FOTM BS builds)

but. this makes average (and sub average) players happy and they form the WAST majority of playerbase - POE is no longer a posh restaurant with that one-of-a-kind taste created by an outstanding chef. it is a fast food joint. good one but still a fast food where anyone can afford to eat (or be a winner)

ps. rng is also a great substitute for content but this is another story

Too less difficulty - hm. I don't know, there are always two sides on the medal. There are the players who create their own builds, who understand all the game mechanics and get along with the boss fights easily once they understood how to dodge certain attacks and phases.

Then there are the other ones, who don't or barely understand the mechanics, follow a simple guide someone posted on the forums and complain about the difficulties.

I take the Uber Lab as an example. The only thing which really can kill players now in there would be the damn traps or if you're unlucky and get hit by Izaro when he crits when your life is not high enough and the damage reduction not high enough.

Welp.

To RNG, RNG gives you highs and lows every now and then, but it makes the game challenging if it is unpredictable if you can get what you are looking for.

If you managed to finish all content, then being player who plays since November 2013, I'd say what keeps me playing are leagues and then you can always try to set yourself new goals. Like I want to find this item somehow and then you either farm for div cards or whatever.

Or you start and try to make a new build, sth. nobody has thought of yet with underestimated uniques or skills.

PoE has so much to offer to keep you busy and happy with it. Don't give up, just because RNG is a huge part of the game. And then you can also take the time and try to find out how to troll (fish) as well as find the recipe the feathers are being used for (didn't want to start a discussion about that).

Hi, I'm Stone__Cold and I am a PoElic.

I don't have an issue with RNG, it's an integral part of any action rpg, my issue is with the compounded RNG. a 1% chance for X is a grindy but manageable until it's gated behind a 10% chance of a 4% chance of a 0.01% chance.

There's no player machination in play here. From beginning to end most aspects of this game are completely up to what the system is doing behind the scenes and has very little to do with you, the player.

Prophesies? Dice roll. Abyss? Dice roll(to spawn), upon a dice roll(to get the depth), upon a dice roll(lich). Breach? Only one of them is even worth anything and it's not target farm-able, more dice rolling.

Divination cards are great because you can just keep running the map that drops the card until you get it. It's nightmarish to grind sometimes(Headhunter), but it's something you the player can elect to do and eventually gain ground in whatever you're trying to do. Masters are just a complete circumvention of some of the worst of the RNG(optimizing gear/6-linking/etc). Trading also does a good job of curbing RNG by just being able to use the random currency you find to buy it. We keep getting new mechanics laden with RNG, but practically nothing outside of some new divination cards to counterbalance that.

I think the biggest issue I may have is that it just seems blatantly lazy. Appealing to a gambler mindset instead of adding any real substance to the game. They say they took this league up to 11 or some such but all I see is more of the same, packaged differently. It's certainly more entertaining than their other attempts, but is it really enjoyable? Same thing, over and over, flipping coins and dice rolling with no real influence by the player.

Not to say that it was all a blunder, I liked the vaal gem changes that came with the league, at least.

Layered RNG and emphasis on gambling in PoE are core aspects, by design. Crafting, looting, challenges, achievements, the difference between life and death, everything.
You noticed it now, while it has always been there. Just intensified over time to become more distinguishing.

I personally also find this heavy RNG reliance quite intrusive and a bit of unfair, but it's about personal preferences.
Mind that many players like and play this game strictly because of this "feature".
Also, don't expect any noticeable changes or reworks, but more and more of it.

If the game is too easy for you, might as well challenge yourself and play Hardcore or SSF, or HCSSF. I found Bestiary way too easy, so this is my first go at starting a league in SSF mode. And tell you what? It's awesome. Not having to deal with the annoying bits of trade league - such as people taking forever to finish a trade, price fixing and random uniques rising to absurd prices due to some FotM build everyone wants to play (looking at you, Shimmeron) - is a blessing.

And just as much is RNG a blessing. I could add a long list of all the cool stuff I already found, but it would mean nothing. Why? Because anyone can do that.

The game has RNG basically almost anywhere possible, but still there is a difference between a noob and a pro. Game knowledge and playing efficiently is what matters. Knowing what loot filter to prepare, what recipes to use, what maps to run and how to build a character is crucial to success.

And the temple is no different from that. Of course, everything that happens in side of the temple is driven by RNG, but this is not Legacy league with limited access to the content. You get a temple every 11 maps. You get bonus loot from every Incursion you finish and basically a free map, helping with a big problem Bestiary had which was sustaining your map pool. This content is not gated behind some requirement like having x amount of currency, anyone can access it. The temple will always have the level area you're comfortable with. This is great for casuals as well as pros and honestly, this is the best part about it all. With Abyss and Bestiary being the prime examples of endgame content being gated behind costly beasts you had to buy if you couldn't run the necessary amount of T13+ maps for the Tiger. It was nutty.

Now we have a properly balanced league and people still complain. What can you say. I guess it means people like you still care, only about the wrong things.

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

If the game is too easy for you, might as well challenge yourself and play Hardcore or SSF, or HCSSF. I found Bestiary way too easy, so this is my first go at starting a league in SSF mode. And tell you what? It's awesome. Not having to deal with the annoying bits of trade league - such as people taking forever to finish a trade, price fixing and random uniques rising to absurd prices due to some FotM build everyone wants to play (looking at you, Shimmeron) - is a blessing.

And just as much is RNG a blessing. I could add a long list of all the cool stuff I already found, but it would mean nothing. Why? Because anyone can do that.

The game has RNG basically almost anywhere possible, but still there is a difference between a noob and a pro. Game knowledge and playing efficiently is what matters. Knowing what loot filter to prepare, what recipes to use, what maps to run and how to build a character is crucial to success.

And the temple is no different from that. Of course, everything that happens in side of the temple is driven by RNG, but this is not Legacy league with limited access to the content. You get a temple every 11 maps. You get bonus loot from every Incursion you finish and basically a free map, helping with a big problem Bestiary had which was sustaining your map pool. This content is not gated behind some requirement like having x amount of currency, anyone can access it. The temple will always have the level area you're comfortable with. This is great for casuals as well as pros and honestly, this is the best part about it all. With Abyss and Bestiary being the prime examples of endgame content being gated behind costly beasts you had to buy if you couldn't run the necessary amount of T13+ maps for the Tiger. It was nutty.

Now we have a properly balanced league and people still complain. What can you say. I guess it means people like you still care, only about the wrong things.

I think you may have skim read and missed the point I was trying to make: I'm not saying RNG is bad for the game, or it should be gotten rid of. It is a core mechanic of the game, however there are steps that could be taken to give a bit more "power" back to the players. Also I don't feel like "Game knowledge" should even be mentioned, PoE is notoriously newbie unfriendly and barely anything is explained to new players. That's a choice by GGG, they didn't have to make the learning curve so steep but they did(and I imagine they've paid for it as it's gated about 4/5ths of my friends from so much as touching the game, even though they were initially interested).

A). Add another mechanic to dial down the absurd levels of RNG we've gotten to compared to way back in perandus league.

B). Reduce the compounded RNG elements of future leagues going forward.

C). At the very least, move PoE Trade to in-game and alleviate the "Already sold" "This player is AFK" "This player has DND on" "This player is offline" shenanigans of trading.

Years ago GGG decided to add in divination cards/masters to the game and they're great additions everyone uses even to this day. Since then the game has gotten even more RNG dependent than it's ever been and there hasn't been any new way to circumvent that, which makes me wonder exactly what changed in their development process. It seems like these days all GGG are interested in is more RNG and more power creep. I don't know how they expect to engage the players with this design goal in mind.