gdpr update

well, how you did it is not how this scheme's supposed to work

the use of a service is not allowed to be bound to the acceptance of restrictive ToS.

see here (sorry, in german)

so havning users just accept your "we ban your ass if we don't like it, you have no rights whatsoever and we share data with partners as we seem fit" - ToS is not gonna work.

having said that, i'm not really sure how europe can sue you if you don't care about that agreement.

same thoughts here. ive read it and.. this doesnt cut it here (EU).


how will they (EU regulators) react? from past experiences - they have their ways.

im pretty sure someone will do a 'whistleblow' preeety soon and check how things go

I read that wall of text. Well, most of it. I'm no expert at law but I do want to nitpick a few points:

"

All Posts must represent your genuine opinion of the matter in question

???

I don't get it. I've never seen such a clause in a ToS before (not that I've read through overly many ToS though). What does this actually mean? Joking and sarcasm are now banned?

Secondly:

"

Disclosing Information: Grinding Gear Games does not sell your personal data to third parties or provide such data to direct marketing companies or other such organisations without your prior consent.

Now I know fuck all about company laws, but this seems like a huge loophole to me. Someone correct me if my thinking is wrong, but with Tencent being the 80% majority shareholder, they are more than likely able to access the personal data right? And THEIR usage of this 'personal data' isn't limited anywhere in any manner. To me it looks like GGG has covered their bases even if Tencent happens to do something with the data collected?

Imo all is ok: "u want play our game? than you have to agree with our conditions and we will keep and gather data we need to provide services".

Nevertheless if I would like to have loan and ggg would say:"we give provide you loan, but u have to sign PoE agreement first" than its against gdpr as its act from strength position and that is not allowed.

"

Anonymous1749704 wrote:

I read that wall of text. Well, most of it. I'm no expert at law but I do want to nitpick a few points:

"

All Posts must represent your genuine opinion of the matter in question

???

I don't get it. I've never seen such a clause in a ToS before (not that I've read through overly many ToS though). What does this actually mean? Joking and sarcasm are now banned?

Secondly:

"

Disclosing Information: Grinding Gear Games does not sell your personal data to third parties or provide such data to direct marketing companies or other such organisations without your prior consent.

Now I know fuck all about company laws, but this seems like a huge loophole to me. Someone correct me if my thinking is wrong, but with Tencent being the 80% majority shareholder, they are more than likely able to access the personal data right? And THEIR usage of this 'personal data' isn't limited anywhere in any manner. To me it looks like GGG has covered their bases even if Tencent happens to do something with the data collected?

I've got some law under my belt. We have no idea what the 80% acquisition included. When you sell your business you are faced with two options: One, sell them revenues while maintaining control of your project/business for a lump sum/over years. Two, sell operations entirely, but keep some shares/equity for your own returns. IE chill on the beach and collect cash for "life".

GGG has gone with option one and at a minimum, Tencent just collects money from GGG. They also have power to appoint directors or attendees to the board whom advise the direction of the company. Since they have a vested interest here, it is thier duty to ensure their shares continue to hold value. There may be clauses here that we don't know about regarding company direction that may alarm people. As for data collection and usage, its highly unlikely the shareholders have access to the data unless strictly stated in their shareholders agreement - which for all we know is the case. However, GGG cannot pass data secretively between themselves and their shareholders without violating the terms listed in their GDPR update, because GGG is still the primary holder and owner of said private data. One thing to remember that GGG is still a Company and are not Tencent. If they were, you would see it explicitly stated and Tencents name would appear in these documents as a result. The actual documents are rather large and an expanded agreement can be requested somewhere from them.

"

Anonymous1749704 wrote:

"

All Posts must represent your genuine opinion of the matter in question

???

I don't get it. I've never seen such a clause in a ToS before (not that I've read through overly many ToS though). What does this actually mean? Joking and sarcasm are now banned?

This is not a new addition to the ToU.
And from experience, I can say that joking and sarcasm aren't blanket banned, they are only banned if the moderator doesn't get your joke, or if you joke about sensitive topics (like joking about bombs in an airport).

"

Rusery wrote:

"

Anonymous1749704 wrote:

I read that wall of text. Well, most of it. I'm no expert at law but I do want to nitpick a few points:

"

All Posts must represent your genuine opinion of the matter in question

???

I don't get it. I've never seen such a clause in a ToS before (not that I've read through overly many ToS though). What does this actually mean? Joking and sarcasm are now banned?

Secondly:

"

Disclosing Information: Grinding Gear Games does not sell your personal data to third parties or provide such data to direct marketing companies or other such organisations without your prior consent.

Now I know fuck all about company laws, but this seems like a huge loophole to me. Someone correct me if my thinking is wrong, but with Tencent being the 80% majority shareholder, they are more than likely able to access the personal data right? And THEIR usage of this 'personal data' isn't limited anywhere in any manner. To me it looks like GGG has covered their bases even if Tencent happens to do something with the data collected?

I've got some law under my belt. We have no idea what the 80% acquisition included. When you sell your business you are faced with two options: One, sell them revenues while maintaining control of your project/business for a lump sum/over years. Two, sell operations entirely, but keep some shares/equity for your own returns. IE chill on the beach and collect cash for "life".

GGG has gone with option one and at a minimum, Tencent just collects money from GGG. They also have power to appoint directors or attendees to the board whom advise the direction of the company. Since they have a vested interest here, it is thier duty to ensure their shares continue to hold value. There may be clauses here that we don't know about regarding company direction that may alarm people. As for data collection and usage, its highly unlikely the shareholders have access to the data unless strictly stated in their shareholders agreement - which for all we know is the case. However, GGG cannot pass data secretively between themselves and their shareholders without violating the terms listed in their GDPR update, because GGG is still the primary holder and owner of said private data. One thing to remember that GGG is still a Company and are not Tencent. If they were, you would see it explicitly stated and Tencents name would appear in these documents as a result. The actual documents are rather large and an expanded agreement can be requested somewhere from them.

That cleared it up enough. I don't have a tinfoil hat the size of China, so I'll just assume no extremely detrimental behind-the-scenes documents exist.

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

"

Anonymous1749704 wrote:

"

All Posts must represent your genuine opinion of the matter in question

???

I don't get it. I've never seen such a clause in a ToS before (not that I've read through overly many ToS though). What does this actually mean? Joking and sarcasm are now banned?

This is not a new addition to the ToU.
And from experience, I can say that joking and sarcasm aren't blanket banned, they are only banned if the moderator doesn't get your joke, or if you joke about sensitive topics (like joking about bombs in an airport).

It being old explains a lot. These terms tend to be vague and understandably so, but this and a few other lines are just plain nonsensical.

I'm gonna put this here because it's a thorn in my side. I'm just expanding with logical deductions from what i am able to see because i am sad about it. Sorry for possible negativity i still love ggg and poe and all that but.. here goes.

Now the GGG can say whatever they want, but this whole selling is an obvious sellout and only through ignorance is bliss can i pretend not to see it but... that's not who I am.

So they have acquired the majority share and did i read somewhere it was 80%? This means essentially that they had the ownership all to themselves. Most companies they sell shares in order to gain money to fund the business, a compromise in order to be able to fund development - GGG took the hard way of making it mostly by themselves. Now these thoughts are nothing new to me because the last years of mine have been preoccupied with planning how to start my own gaming company and making it. For me, i am intent on making it the hard way as well but my goal is a different one than has now been revealed it is for GGG.

See, i would want to do it the hard way for the integrity of the game in order to make sure no one could seize control. I would do it to maintain quality control. I also know if you get that big you can earn much more than you realistically need just by holding the majority share. Now, GGG made it all that way and what do they choose to do? they sell it instead.

Why sell it now? what is the significance of this timing? I will tell you. It seems by all means highly likely that they have decided to sell after raising the value of their "product" to a near ideal level - PoE is peaking and from now on it's probably just gonna hum along nicely while people are looking for new ARPG's. Time to profit, hard work paid off.

So let me reiterate it. They have made it the hard way, but with the actual goal of not making the best game(even though they also care a lot about the game), but with the goal of earning money. There is no middle-ground, the company has been sold in order to make money at the cost of integrity even at actual risk of losing control! There can be no clearer indication.

It comes as no surprise for me, from the very beginning the integrity of the game has been sacrifice in order to milk money. GGG have pushed their "ethical" funding system to the max at a point where an mtx set costs the price of an AAA title game. Supporter packs... don't get me started on supporter packs i loathe how it's a whaling business that means the normal players will be shut off from many of the coolest things in game. I have also sensed over the years the monetary intention behind many an action. Even, and this i have unfortunately only heard second hand, there was talk in early years how GGG was funded on D2 P2W money, even the man himself was being interviewed about that in forbes. I don't know if that's true, but it fits with the pattern i have watched over the years. It also explains how a special someone is more interested in the business side than caring for improving the aspects of the game.

We will probably also see a shift from here on out in the intention of GGG. It seems to have been recognized that the PoE project has run it's main course and now it's in maintenance mode. This of course is a strong exaggeration, but essentially a shift in intention of GGG is likely to happen. The question is what now? Will they use to money to start a new business? To make a new game? To live the baller life? I doubt it's just for the smaug stacking in the bank.

Now these are just my thoughts. GGG are welcome to disprove me but i will not care for any foot soldier who doesn't even understand it themselves. But no higher ranks with the influence will comment on such thoughts with the true reasoning because shady actions fear the light it avoids it because the light reveals it and so it cannot come out into the open or everyone can see it for what it is. What worries me are the reasons given to us, such as that it is for the game and such. That doesn't make sense. In order words, i found that statement a bit too slick for my taste.

I am sure the previous owners also care greatly for the game in their own way and as such wouldn't sell it to someone who doesn't have a good reputation(like tencent does), but the above arguments are still equally valid. I really wish i am analysering the situation, but way too often i find myself being right and the future further proving to myself that i am right also about prospects that sadden me. From what i can tell tencent seems to get it, but the problem isn't that they do good business(their good business is investing in projects they believe in and having faith in the companies own ability, so it's bad business from they to try and pretend they know better they just invest in companies that already get it so to speak), but as i was saying the problem isn't that they do good business the problem is that the driving force behind is monetary rather than about the gameplay.

That agreement "update" triggered me. How i wish we finally get an ARPG ruled by those who care about gaming more than business but alas the business drive is almost a requirement to make it.