Curse on hit order (Need to clarify)

Sorry if this question is already answered here, but:

Is CoH applying curse AFTER or BEFORE hit? What about Life Gain on Hit?

For example, new unique belt, Gluttony in combination with Flicker Strike and Multistrike.
So character loses 100hp on skill use, will it be refilled after three hits? Or these hits will just apply curse, but not utilize it?

You're overthinking things. On hit applies when the hit happens, not before. Each hit is a hit. Multistrike doesn't turn 3 hits into one hit.

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mark1030 wrote:

You're overthinking things. On hit applies when the hit happens, not before. Each hit is a hit. Multistrike doesn't turn 3 hits into one hit.

So, you mean curse will be applied AFTER hit? Because "on" isn't really informative in this case.

Let's look closer at "hit" as a complex event.

Firstly, game founds that something is going to hit something. It calculates all the chances and rolls all randoms, deciding is it actually hit. After this it must calculate damage dealt and some "on hit" effects like CoH, Life Gain on Hit, Knockback, Stun etc.

Can somebody from GGG officially describe actual order of this effects applying? I would be grateful.

@mark1030 I mean multistrike turns 34 life on hit into 102 life on skill use that overcomes Gluttony loss.

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lorrey wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

You're overthinking things. On hit applies when the hit happens, not before. Each hit is a hit. Multistrike doesn't turn 3 hits into one hit.

So, you mean curse will be applied AFTER hit? Because "on" isn't really informative in this case.

The curse is definitely applied ON hit, not before or after the hit.

What you are asking is whether it is applied before or after damage calculation. It is applied after.

It is applied before the enemy dies, however, even if it dies in 1 hit.

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lorrey wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

You're overthinking things. On hit applies when the hit happens, not before. Each hit is a hit. Multistrike doesn't turn 3 hits into one hit.

So, you mean curse will be applied AFTER hit? Because "on" isn't really informative in this case.

Let's look closer at "hit" as a complex event.

Firstly, game founds that something is going to hit something. It calculates all the chances and rolls all randoms, deciding is it actually hit. After this it must calculate damage dealt and some "on hit" effects like CoH, Life Gain on Hit, Knockback, Stun etc.

Can somebody from GGG officially describe actual order of this effects applying? I would be grateful.

@mark1030 I mean multistrike turns 34 life on hit into 102 life on skill use that overcomes Gluttony loss.

Think of it this way. Let us say that you had a 0% chance hit a target. However, the game had a curse that would guarantee a hit (i.e., 100% chance to hit). If you straight up cast the curse or linked that curse to Blasphemy Support so it would be cast as an aura and the target got in range, it would be cursed before you attacked it, and you would be guaranteed to hit it.

On the other hand, if you link that curse to Cast on Hit, the results would be quite different. You have to hit the target to apply the curse. However, you have a zero chance to hit the target, so every time you attack, it will be a whiff, and the curse would never be applied.

Why the difference? Because what happens to the target is dependent on the status of the target at the time the hit occurs, not after it does. In the first two cases, the target is already cursed when the hit attempt is tried, so the hit is guaranteed. In the case of the "on hit" application, the target is not yet affected by the curse, so the attack cannot apply the curse, resulting in whiff after whiff.

The same principle applies to your question. Assuming the target is not already cursed, when you hit the target the first time, the curse was not yet affecting the target, so the damage calculation is done without the effects of the curse. After the damage is calculated, any status effect changes, including the curse because it is an "On hit" application, are applied. Any subsequent hits would then benefit from the curse (including the second and third hits from Multistrike because each hit is calculated independently, and the first hit cursed the target, so it would be present for the second and third hits).

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Sotaudi wrote:

... what happens to the target is dependent on the status of the target at the time the hit occurs ...

That's the answer I've asked for. Thanks. So FS is not playable with gluttony too.

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lorrey wrote:

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Sotaudi wrote:

... what happens to the target is dependent on the status of the target at the time the hit occurs ...

That's the answer I've asked for. Thanks. So FS is not playable with gluttony too.

Someone with more experience than I would have to answer that, but I would think it would be very difficult to make it work. Flicker Strike (FS) has a cool down, which can be bypassed by expending Frenzy charges. The most common way to build Frenzy charges is to get them on kills. If you are killing your targets quickly enough to keep bypassing the cool down, you are probably one-shotting the targets, which means you are not able to get subsequent hits on them to benefit from the life/mana gain on hit from applying the curse. If you can hit them more than once, you are probably not building Frenzy charges quickly enough to bypass the cool down.

Likewise, the bigger the pack of mobs, the more likely it is that FS will jump you to a mob you have not hit before, causing you to apply the curse, then jump to another mob you have not hit before, applying the curse, then so on and so on. Again, you would not be benefiting from applying the curse unless you keep jumping between mobs you have already cursed.

You might be able to alleviate that by getting some kind of AoE support linked to FS so that your first hit will hit multiple mobs, then when you jump to the next, there will be a higher chance it was already hit with the curse. But if you are one shotting them, even that would not help much.

There are probably better skill combos to use with that belt, but someone else would have to speak to the specifics.

Poacher's Mark from gluttony applies on spell hits too. If you're using it for CWDT, then your triggered spells will also apply poacher's mark. So you could use spells that hit instantly (eg: ark etc...) and curse most enemies before they die to flicker. If you're dealing most of your damage with spells, then your flicker strike will apply poacher's mark; so use mostly delayed spells like projectiles and stuff so they don't kill the enemies before you can flicker to them (with melee splash and ancestral call) to apply the curse.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

So you could use spells that hit instantly (eg: ark etc...)

Thats not completly right. Only the first hit of Arc is instant, after that there is a "travel time" for the chains.