Lioneye's fall + Soul Raker : Why is it considered "BIS"?

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jeerinho wrote:

To even place the jewel itself costs 3 points. I am also not in agreement that it is BiS unless the build for some reason has to avoid going south to duelist area for leech? Perhaps some builds have to stay north of the tree for extra curse or totem nodes? Or for ES builds maybe.

Jewel slots are usually worth 3 pts and the duelist area leech still costs you 3 points to get anyway and doesn't include mana leech unless you path in from the bottom (and even then only .4)

If you are traveling to duelist anyway it can be more efficient to take the nodes there that's true but the debate isn't about which you path to its where is the best location for lioneye's fall, if you place it in the duelist node for example you get some great 2h nodes available but you can get very similarly valued nodes from taking any of the regular bow wheels, so it is just most value near soulraker where it gives you high value crit nodes & handles your leech requirements.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Jewel slots are usually worth 3 pts and the duelist area leech still costs you 3 points to get anyway and doesn't include mana leech unless you path in from the bottom (and even then only .4)

Just to clarify this. Its the case only for normal rare jewel wit stats, lionseye give you nothing by itself and it costs you 5 points to start using it : 2 luckluster nodes to get to slot + jewel slot + 1 dex node next to claw wheel+ first node in claw wheel that doesnt get converted. Honestly its matter of preference. Slightly different path on tree lets you grab mana leech for 1 point.

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kuciol wrote:

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Jewel slots are usually worth 3 pts and the duelist area leech still costs you 3 points to get anyway and doesn't include mana leech unless you path in from the bottom (and even then only .4)

Just to clarify this. Its the case only for normal rare jewel wit stats, lionseye give you nothing by itself and it costs you 5 points to start using it : 2 luckluster nodes to get to slot + jewel slot + 1 dex node next to claw wheel+ first node in claw wheel that doesnt get converted. Honestly its matter of preference. Slightly different path on tree lets you grab mana leech for 1 point.

Your right but the whole reason its so highly valued in that slot is because it turns those claw nodes into real value bow nodes, yes its expensive in terms of points so is pathing to duelist to get some leech where you spend a similar number of points getting less leech that is spread over more nodes :p

Bow users aren't dummies there is a reason it is so commonly placed in that jewel slot and it isn't because they can't be bothered to min/max its because its opportunity cost is less than the travel to get similar value.

It's not in some cases.

Used to be pretty useful back in the days when all the few leech passives were physical attack damage only. Not so good anymore now that it's general attack damage and leech can be had in duelist area. An old remnant.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Your right but the whole reason its so highly valued in that slot is because it turns those claw nodes into real value bow nodes, yes its expensive in terms of points so is pathing to duelist to get some leech where you spend a similar number of points getting less leech that is spread over more nodes :p

Bow users aren't dummies there is a reason it is so commonly placed in that jewel slot and it isn't because they can't be bothered to min/max its because its opportunity cost is less than the travel to get similar value.

You dont have to travel to duelist area for leech. Life leech is right next to claw nodes with life on it, mana leech is on bottom right side of the tree, near bow nodes. Lioneye is still better but not by a huge margin, its less than most players think and cosidering its price i say use it if you drop it or you really want to min/max, otherwise you are fine skipping it.

0.4% lifeleech probably isn't enough unless your DPS is extreme and its just more point efficient to get both in one go, I personally prefer the duelist leech anyway as the max-rate goes very well with VP but again its most value for lioneyes fall thats in question.

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kompaniet wrote:

Used to be pretty useful back in the days when all the few leech passives were physical attack damage only. Not so good anymore now that it's general attack damage and leech can be had in duelist area. An old remnant.

Soul raker giving global attack leech is much more recent (2.6) than the duelist leech being global attack leech (2.1)