A lot of questions about necro builds

I decided to roll a summoner in HCA and just kind of winged it to about level 80 now, but I've come up with a lot of questions on the way and from watching videos and reading guides recently.

I'll just list them here, if anyone can answer some of them it would be greatly appreciated.


1. What is the best weapon choices for minion builds? The weapons that really stand out to me is montegruls and the scourge. The other weapons i feel just have too much of a defensive drawback for HC at least. Montegruls seems nice in that it makes your zombies twice if not more tanky, and a little help with clear with the infernal blow effect. But running montegruls means you are losing about 5% physical damage reduction and of course the benefits of running a different MH weapon.

2. What are the best minion combinations? I've found from my own experience and from guides that most people these days seem to run spectres+SRS. It would seem to be this is because trying to fit 2 minion skills that scale off level is quite harder and would require running a staff. Compared to putting the scaling skill in a +2 helm and using your chest for spectre links and allowing you to run a shield. Personally i'm trying spectres and zombies atm because it's a lot less involved and by the numbers i'm not so sure that much worse than srs. It would also seem that skeletons are just not performing anywhere near the other minions?
It also worth mentioning here that I've also found that trying to fit more than 2 minions into a build results in severe lacks of socket/link space in a build type already starved. I've at least not seen any minion builds using more than 2.

3. Which minion specific steroids are worth using, and how to make space for them? One of the problems i'm running into is how to fit things like convocation, desecrate, bone offering etc... into my sockets and whether or not they should be linked to anything such as CWDT. Things that come to mind is unset rings, and weapon swaps. Currently using convocation on a high level CWDT and it seems to be alright. One of the hidden benefits being freeing up skill bar space.

4. What's the best way to control minions and deal with their AI? I've read that skills such as arc can work well to direct minions, but that is another socket I need to sort out and it would be nice for EE but currently I don't have any ele damage in my setup. I also noticed most people use shield charge and essentially charge into a pack, cast a few spells and are off while minions kill things behind only turning around when the loot filter dings. I'm guessing there is no way to have minions run in front of you?

5. Which spectres are the best? I see solar guards is probably the most recommended, but i'm my experience heralds perform a bit better but that might be due to level differences and the fact i'm not using arc+EE to greatly boost their fire dmg. It could also be that heralds have better synergy with zombies (phy damage scaling and no ele conversions).

6. What auras/buffs/curses should I be using and how to fit them into a build? Currently i'm just using haste+Clarity and Arctic Armor with enfeeble on a CWDT setup. I'm having a hard time visualizing how to fit another curses (socket space) or running something like TC on blasphemy. AA seems to have amazing synergy with shield charge, and as a completely life/armor based character atm the extra defense is greatly needed. And fitting another high reservation aura seems impossible.

7. How to layer defenses? Currently i'm sitting at 5k base armor, 15k w/ granite and 5.5k hp. I have arctic armor, and I have enfeeble+IC increased duration on a CWDT. Also using a warding basalt flask, and using an ahn's shield for +3 max resists and 29% block chance. What are the alternatives? Any builds using ES/EVA or maybe MoM etc....

8. Minion jewels? This league has a plethora of really interesting minion passives on jewels like %chance to blind or taunt on hit with minions, added phy/ele to minion damage, %increased minion speed etc... as well as the uniques like the zombie slam augment. What are the best things to grab? Currently i'm using 2 zombie unique jewels and looking for highest flat phy roll + taunt on hit or speed.

1. What is the best weapon choices for minion builds?
for SRS you want a 6L staff with +1 to level of all socketed gems and +2 to level of socketed fire gems. it gets insanely strong with empower.
if you run a skeleton build then queen's escape might be worth considering. but who runs skeleton builds lol
montreguls is only really good for convenience becaue you dont have to resummon zombies as much, but not really strong.

2. What are the best minion combinations?
generally you run either 6L spectres or 6L SRS as your main damage source, plus 4L zombies as meat shields.

3. Which minion specific steroids are worth using, and how to make space for them?
you want both flesh offering and bone offering. you use flesh for clearing maps fast and bone to be safe on potentially dangerous fights.
desecrate is a must, you need it to always have the option of using an offering, and to resummon zombies on demand if you run them.
convocation is useful, especially if you run spectres. i dont like the idea of putting it on CWDT though, use it manually instead.

4. What's the best way to control minions and deal with their AI?
zombies will generally try to run to where your mouse is when you are (right)clicking stuff, you can direct them around a little this way.
skeletons will just randomly walk around their summoning area and attack nearby enemies.
SRS will sometimes focus on your mouse cursor in a similar way to zombies, but they also fly and have no collision problems.
play more and over time you get used to playing around the wonky minion AI.

5. Which spectres are the best?
tukohamas vanguards (the totem guys) and wicker men are popular choices
solar guards are fine too
which ones are best for you depends on what content you are running

6. What auras/buffs/curses should I be using and how to fit them into a build?
hatred is a strong damage boost to zombies and SRS
haste is nice for everything in general
curse depends on what you are running. for pure fire damage spectres flammability is nice, for mixed elemental damage minions like SRS with hatred you can use elemental weakness, for pure phys minions like zombies and skeletons you can use vulnerability.
to apply curse, use orb of storms or ball lightning with curse on hit.

7. How to layer defenses?
usng bone offering pushes your block chance up to like 60%
put fortify on your shield charge for additional damage reduction
consider getting a jade flask of reflexes and a granite flask of iron skin, together with the block chance from bone offering those will make you nearly immortal against physical hits (not against big bosses though)
if you are not reserving mana you can get MoM for a big boost to your ehp, but this requires you to run no auras (or only run 1 in an essence worm)

8. Minion jewels?
zombie slam jewel is only really worth it if you rely on zombies for clearing stuff, which you probably shouldnt do unless you are a dedicated zombie build that does strength stacking with baron (which isnt really a thing anymore after baron nerfs i think)
the abyss jewels can be completely busted, if you can get your hands on some good ones then use them and enjoy the insane damage boost

Thanks for the answers, I guess what is really muddy to me now is socket/link space.

So if you do a full SRS+Spectre+Zombie build, you will have your entire chest (Spectre), helm (SRS/Zombie), and either staff(SRS), or boots/gloves(zombies) and that leaves you with...

Two 3-links + One 4-link, Or Two 4-links in your main setups, and Two possible 3-links in your offweapon setups.

However active skills, aside from maybe SRS when it's your staff cannot be put on your weapons because when you weapon swap to say cast desecrate+offering you lose those abilities... for instance haste/clarity/hatred if they were socketed in your weapon.


I'm finding it difficult to understand how on top of Spectres/SRS/Zombies, you would be able to fit in a shield charge 3 link, CWDT setup, auras and things like AA, and also have it so your weapon swap to unlinked but important abilities like desecrate and offerings is possible.

Maybe linking to a character that you consider has a perfect gem setup would be the easiest way to explain. And why certain things might be triaged.

people usually dont run specres, srs and zombies all at the same time. you cant realistically get all of them to deal competitive levels of damage at the same time unless you run multiple 6L setups, which is very expensive and hard to set up, and im still not sure whether it would be worth all the sockets. usually you're better off with just 1 type of summons for damage, and maybe zombies on top of that for defensive porposes.


i dont have a 'perfect' setup right now, my last summoner was an srs+zombies necro in harbinger league. the final gem setup i was aiming for back then looked something like this:

weapon: shield charge - faster attacks - fortify
shield: bone offering - increased duration - flesh offering
chest (the covenant): 6L SRS
helmet (the baron): 4L zombies
boots: increased area of effect - vulnerability, desecrate, haste
gloves: CWDT - immortal call, hatred - generosity

if i were to make a spectre build today i would probably go for something like this

weapon: shield charge - faster attacks - fortify
shield: bone offering - increased duration - flesh offering
chest (vis mortis): 6L spectres
helmet: CWDT - immortal call - increased duration, desecrate
boots: aura setup, convocation
gloves: curse setup

if you really want to run 3 summons on your build, you could consider using the hungry loop ring for an additional 5L setup. but i still dont think it's a very good idea to run so many different summons at the same time. you'll probably get more power out of your character if you just focus on either spectres or SRS, and its easier to build too.

I actually dislike montreguls because an important defensive aspect of summoner imo is body blocking by minions. Having half the amount of zombies means you end up taking more damage. So I run with 10 zombies and a Queen's Escape. Which, btw, is not only good for skeletons, but also for Vaal skeletons. Having a Vaal army that can zerg through an entire abyss and stay much longer in boss fights is a huge benefit. Also since Queen's Escape is a 2 hander, you can 5 (or even 6) link that Vaal army, which makes a very strong side skill even stronger.

That said, take everything I say with a grain of salt, I've never beaten any of the endgame bosses in Path of Exile yet. But Act 10 Kitava was a complete joke, as was every map boss up to tier 8, which is where I am now. I have yet to reach the limits of what 10 zombies + vaal skeles can handle.

Had a nice breakthrough in my build today, against advice I stayed zombies/spectres but I feel like it's clearing just fine and of course montegruls zombies upkeep vs SRS is much easier if not just non-existant in comparison. Makes for a more comfy build idk?

I did uberlab today and Picked up mistress of sacrifice and using spirit offering in my level 1 CWDT, and bone offering in my high level CWDT has made my character a lot more tanky and the best part is it is automated. Self casting desecrate and flesh offering, and again the mistress ascendancy made the QoL from much much faster MS just from base and the double dipping in shield charge MS.

Using desecration trick to get at level toukohamas vanguards and wickerman I can kill t14 dominus in under 8 seconds each stage, uber izaro dies in under 10 as well.

I also picked up EE on the tree, I see now why everyone uses fire spectres it's pretty insane synergy there with arc. As well as arc being a decent skill to keep minions AI aggressive. Although it is a bit annoying when minions run to your side when you are dodging stuff like dominus lighting proj or running around brutus so you don't get smashed. But I haven't found a way to stop that.

If anyone would like take a look at my gear/links and see if it could be made better.


Also if not montegruls, which is better the scourge claw or united in a dream (or even the cheaper version).

why are you running both burning damage support and fire penetration support?
spectres that hit do not benefit from burning damage, and spectres that do burning damage do not benefit from fire penetration.
no matter which spectres you run, they will never be affected by both at the same time.

also i dont like having offerings on cwdt. only one offering can be active at the same time, and with these cwdt setups you are pretty much leaving it to random chance which one you have active at any given time.

"

RTC_ wrote:

why are you running both burning damage support and fire penetration support?
spectres that hit do not benefit from burning damage, and spectres that do burning damage do not benefit from fire penetration.
no matter which spectres you run, they will never be affected by both at the same time.

also i dont like having offerings on cwdt. only one offering can be active at the same time, and with these cwdt setups you are pretty much leaving it to random chance which one you have active at any given time.

Ya i ran out of chrome trying to get 4 blue, figured fire pen would be the best but if it doesn't work then i guess melee phy would be better.


And damn I didn't know you could only have one offering at once, would of been something nice to include in the tooltips I guess :^). I wonder if it is still worth using spirit offering on CWDT, since it is still a 1k or so heal off of 5 corpses, and does still translate a damage buff to minions while you are waiting to renew your flesh offering via self cast.

thanks for the clarifications, it probably would of taken me a while to figure it out otherwise.


I guess the next thing on my mind is in my current build is there any way to improve my use of auras and curses? Currently im just using haste for the MS buff on self and the dmg on minions, im not sure if it is more damage than say hatred especially if im using lightning EE. And then clarity just for the extra bump from commander of darkness. I can't really phathom using more than 1 50% aura unless I use essence worm and spend points on reduction in tree. And on the curse side of things I just threw enfeeble into a lvl 1 CWDT setup, I could see myself getting a +1 amulet and swapping something out in that CWDT for tempchains or something else.


Edit: After playing with it a bit I don't think it's worth running spirit offering on CWDT, especially considering I forgot vaal haste existed and removing it to free up a slot for that is tremendously better.

I also think I figured out something important, Whenever you move your character using move, or a mobility skill zombies/Spectres want to move to that point as well which makes doing bosses where you need to dodge a lot quite a pain.

Now I see why every minion build is running SRS, because they dont suffer from this drawback and I assume skeletons are the same way. They are always attacking something even if you are moving around.

Is there anyway to get around this? I was thinking maybe spell totem+arc but ill have to try it later.

"

BossOfThisGym wrote:

1. What is the best weapon choices for minion builds?

2. What are the best minion combinations?

3. Which minion specific steroids are worth using, and how to make space for them?

4. What's the best way to control minions and deal with their AI?

5. Which spectres are the best?

6. What auras/buffs/curses should I be using and how to fit them into a build?

7. How to layer defenses?

8. Minion jewels?

Ok I will try to give you my personal point of view.

1. - For me there are effective 3 choices.



The Advancing Fortress is the most safe choice tho. Brightbeak the meme element. (You don't need this level of shieldcharge to be effective)

2. - What worked for me so far is 4x Solar Guards or 4x Fireraiser Goatmen or 3 Tukohama Vanguards + 1 Wickermen. There are other combo's too but I didn't tried them yet. Once I get a Shore map again I'll try the Canibals.

For the links itself there are a view options tho. I went with Minion Damage + GMP + Pierce/Faster Proj + Ele Focus + Spell Echo in a 6 Link. YOu also can go with a Elder Helm.



Tukohama Vanguards need a different setup! They dont use GMP/pierce they want Inc Burning Damage and Swift Affliction.

3. - If you can get it in your setup, Rampage.

Low Budget possible too!



Also your Skill Tree is the key how much they get pushed.

4. - spam your ele Equilibrium Skill at the destination (curser) they will focus on that point.

5. - This is personal preference. Solar Guards are nice and a solid choice, others are nice too.

6. - Buffs? Rampage, Minion Res, Offering, clarity (maybe even lvl 1) to push them further.

7. - Defense. I will now put up a wall of text.

When I started my Summoner this league I wanted something stable and reliable to cruise the atlas. So I opted out from Necro Aegis and use my shield for myself. I gave a focus on spell block too!

Example Items


with advancing fortress, bone offering lvl 18+ & a spell block shield and maybe stone of lazhwar you'll reach 75/75 Block without Rumis! Lazyness ftw.

So Imagine a 6k+ lifepool with 8 Zombro's one Brolem and maybe an Animate Brodian to distract and your Spectres to deal absurd dmg. you're fairly safe. Just don't tank heave hits you have time to move.

Alternatively and way more expensive you can try a cwdt meme.
meme Build

There is no need to sacrafice your defense for dmg. your minions are super strong anyways.

A dual Curse setup also helps alot. (my profile is public, feel free to take a look)

8. - yes. They exist and can be very expensive. In Abyss you want Life + Minion Attack/Cast Speed + other useful stuff. If you can manage it, at least 10% chance to taunt for your minions distract enemys even further thus is more safe. Same goes for blind.


cheers