PoE Hedge Fund - OFFICIAL NO-GO AS PER GGG

I'm guessing you harbinger league? If so I'm not playing that league anymore so you are welcome to invest my 20 or so chaos I have. Let me know via pm. Thanks.....
There are 10 types of people. Those that know binary, and those that dont.
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Blakwhysper wrote:
I don't understand how it would scale....

If you have 100 chaos, you can make trades with chaos. If you have 1000 chaos, you can make larger trades. At 1000000 chaos.... is there a point? Does anyone trade in sums that large to make a point in having an investment past a certain point? I get if the investment is used to craft mirrorable items that are then charge mirror fees etc etc then possibly? But currency flipping? Does having a large investment allow you to pay other people to run uber lab as employees (pretty sure someone did that in a previous league to success)? If it isn't scalable wouldn't that mean the more investors there are /more currency invested in you, the less payout per person / investment would be?

I have no investment experience myself other than currency flipping in poe. My real world job is owning a successful hobby gaming store, so I'm just curious.


What you are saying holds true from my experience. The OP has said in this thread that currency flipping is only a small part of what he intends to do. I am guessing that flipping items is more lucrative strictly speaking, but even then their must be an upper limit in POE terms, unless you are making constant trades more or less. Even some of the biggest flips I can imagine, and I don't have a very good imagination for such things can't be more than a few thousand chaos. So, you do raise some interesting points here.
Spoiler
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magicstop wrote:
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Honestly I've never been involved with hedge funds -although I've had lunch with George Soros on one occasion (not pertinent but I felt name dropping would be fun)- because I prefer to actively manage my investments. Simply put, you can ask whatever you want and pretend you're managing a hedge fund, but in the end you're just offering an in game service. A service I would not pay for and one I think it is a bit dubious to seek payment for. In the end you do what you see fit, I'm merely offering my perspective as a potential client as one is want to do when ideas are posted in public forums. You are charging your clients a fee to use their currency to make you money - this would be fine in the real world but I think it a bit silly in the world of arpgs. Feel free to disagree.
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magicstop wrote:


Damn, man. When you name drop, you name drop big. I'm not at all ashamed to admit that I'm jealous! I'd love to hear about the circumstances of that lunch.
Anyway, I hope I didn't come off with too much hostility. Again, I appreciate your critiques. I ultimately do disagree with you about the appropriateness of charging in-game currency for an in-game service. I think it's fair and legitimate. This game already has a strong history and culture of charging in-game fees for service, such as for mirroring service, or paying people to power level you, or paying people for Shaper runs, etc. I feel very comfortable asking people for a percentage of their profits that I have earned for them.

In terms of currency fluctuations, you should scope out poeninja if you haven't already. You can view some of the historical price fluctuations, although I do wish they offered a bit more magnifying power when reviewing the data. Great site, nonetheless. I've used it to make sizable profits off of currency pairings, such as when Annulment Orbs started shooting up in prices a few weeks ago. I've also had some losses, such as losing .1c per unit on some Blessings that I sat on too long.


Feel free to PM me if you wish to speak further on any topic - FOREX or otherwise.
Heyo, pretty much done with harbinger league. do investments have to be in chaos or can i also chuck all my other random currency at you?
There was another player who did something similar but he burned out within a few months. At his peak he was handling hundreds of exalts in his portfolio (which I invested in). The way he set it up was a google docs spreadsheet detailing everyone's shares and going week by week which varied widely, some weeks had large profits while others had losses. I made a few dozen exalts through his fund before he shut it down. This was all in Standard.

For temp leagues, you'd have to have pretty impressive growth for it to be worth it, considering the timescale.
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Blakwhysper wrote:
I don't understand how it would scale....

If you have 100 chaos, you can make trades with chaos. If you have 1000 chaos, you can make larger trades. At 1000000 chaos.... is there a point? Does anyone trade in sums that large to make a point in having an investment past a certain point? I get if the investment is used to craft mirrorable items that are then charge mirror fees etc etc then possibly? But currency flipping? Does having a large investment allow you to pay other people to run uber lab as employees (pretty sure someone did that in a previous league to success)? If it isn't scalable wouldn't that mean the more investors there are /more currency invested in you, the less payout per person / investment would be?

I have no investment experience myself other than currency flipping in poe. My real world job is owning a successful hobby gaming store, so I'm just curious.


Please forgive any spelling or grammar errors, as I am having to dictate this post to my phone currently.

So yeah, this concern has come up a few times in this thread, and it's definitely on my radar. I think that it is very likely that there is a level at which profit no longer scales with investment capital. As I mentioned a bit earlier, my plan is to start somewhat small, and then organically scale things up bit by bit. That will allow me to feel out this concern as the fund grows. There are multiple investment strategies that I use, some of which are certainly better suited for larger sums of currency, but if I find that I am reaching a limit in terms of how much currency I can profitably manage, I will probably cap the fund. Note, I am not promising to make anyone an in-game millionaire. My goal is to offer people consistent profits. At exactly what scale this will occur, I cannot yet say. That being said, whatever the scale, I would think that it would be an attractive venture if it results in essentially free income for investors.

I also think you are correct in examining the relationship between the number of investors versus the amount of capital that each investor can contribute. As I said earlier, I would like for this fund to benefit a variety of players, ranging from those with very little currency to those with a significant amount of currency. As such, the number of investors will depend on the investment capital allowed per player. I do not anticipate a flat deposit, but rather, I anticipate accepting a variety of investments from a variety of players.
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essemoni wrote:
I'm guessing you harbinger league? If so I'm not playing that league anymore so you are welcome to invest my 20 or so chaos I have. Let me know via pm. Thanks.....

Thanks for sharing your interest. I'll put you down as an interested initial investor. I would want to give you your profits, whether you were active in league or not, so perhaps I could give them to you in Standard when the league closes. We can discuss that further via PM if this venture takes place.
Last edited by magicstop on Oct 16, 2017, 10:46:43 AM
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Gluttony93 wrote:
Heyo, pretty much done with harbinger league. do investments have to be in chaos or can i also chuck all my other random currency at you?


Mixed currency is fine, as long as I can personally afford to convert it into chaos. The fund will likely be held using chaos only. It may utilize exalts as well, although I have not yet decided. But in terms of people contributing mixed currency, my plan is simply to buy that currency out using my personal account at market levels, and then contributing the chaos to the fund.
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AridZephyr wrote:
There was another player who did something similar but he burned out within a few months. At his peak he was handling hundreds of exalts in his portfolio (which I invested in). The way he set it up was a google docs spreadsheet detailing everyone's shares and going week by week which varied widely, some weeks had large profits while others had losses. I made a few dozen exalts through his fund before he shut it down. This was all in Standard.

For temp leagues, you'd have to have pretty impressive growth for it to be worth it, considering the timescale.


This is a great point. One way that I could see adjusting for the limited time scale of a league is by taking limited investments initially, and then allowing for more investments as fund grows and the league progresses. That way, I don't over dilute the fund, but at the same time I have enough capital to engage in maximally profitable trading. I would probably start by reaching out to previous investors to see if they were interested.

I have been thinking that I will use Google Drive, as well, for the various documentation that would come along with this fund. That way, there can be public access and transparency to records, as well as investor only data that is easily accessible and manipulable should investors need it.
Color me interested. I can see why there is such speculation. Maybe we can do a test? Get 10 people to invest 50c (myself included) and see what our investment gets us in 2 weeks? With a 500c starting point. That should be more than enough starting capital for you without being a threatening investment from us.

Should we set a goal? With there only being a month left or so of the league? 200% in 2 weeks. That should put to rest peoples fears of you losing interest if there was a tough goal to work to.

If you do well at the end of this league that would set you up for success at the begining of the next league. More investors / A good history.

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