Lacerate vs Sunder?

What are the pros and cons of Slayer Lacerate vs Sunder?

Is one "better" than the other?

1) Sunder has better damage effectiveness at all levels of the gem. Smoother leveling as well since
2) Sunder does not alternate weapon hits. So you only need one good weapon and a stat stick off hand. Brightbeak + Sunder is probably some of the most insanely fast leveling you will find. Especially since Leap Slam aslo uses main hand attack speed.
3) Lacerate also has okay damage but requires two good weapons since the attacks alternate weapons. You can go 1 hand + shield lacerate... but sunder, even in that regard, would still be more effective.

TL;DR: Sunder > Lacerate in almost all aspects.

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Prisus wrote:

3) Lacerate also has okay damage but requires two good weapons since the attacks alternate weapons. You can go 1 hand + shield lacerate... but sunder, even in that regard, would still be more effective.

You can still use fake dual-wielding to achieve only mainhand or only offhand attacks with Lacerate. You just need 1 DPS weapon and 1 ineligible weapon. For example, I use Scaeva (sword) in off-hand and Advancing Fortress (claw) in mainhand on my Gladiator. Since you can't use Lacerate with Claws (or Maces or Daggers for that matter), Lacerate's damage is based only on my off-hand.

Lacerate is usually viewed as being superior for single-target options, as the two waves have some area of overlap. Individual Lacerate waves deal less damage than Sunder, but they can overlap in the center to deal greater damage to single large targets.

Lacerate is usually seen as requiring significant investment in AoE and attack speed both to feel good, while Sunder, to the best of my knowledge, needs less of both. Lacerate meshes very well with Multistrike, while Sunder is hilarious but generally held to be not very effective with Multistrike support.

These days, after Sunder's fat buff? I'd honestly consider choice between the two to largely be up to personal preference and desired flavor. Sunder works earlier and makes for smooth leveling, Lacerate is something of a classic standby and likely scales better in the late endgame when you're trying to put the Shaper on farm. If that's not a goal of yours, both work just fine. Both are valid, which is better than the days where Earthquake and Earthquake alone was your choice of melee skill.

Well. "Melee" skill.

What a great conversation, thanks for the responses!

Does the conversation change if we are using either skill with a two-hander to get the full benefit from the Slayer ascendency?

I was thinking Skyforth Lacerate Slayer would be pretty spicy.

If I was going to do Dual-Wield wouldn't it be better to be Berserker or Gladiator or something else? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?

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Prisus wrote:

1) Sunder has better damage effectiveness at all levels of the gem. Smoother leveling as well since
2) Sunder does not alternate weapon hits. So you only need one good weapon and a stat stick off hand. Brightbeak + Sunder is probably some of the most insanely fast leveling you will find. Especially since Leap Slam aslo uses main hand attack speed.
3) Lacerate also has okay damage but requires two good weapons since the attacks alternate weapons. You can go 1 hand + shield lacerate... but sunder, even in that regard, would still be more effective.

TL;DR: Sunder > Lacerate in almost all aspects.

Only builds I know that use lacerate are using 2 handed weapons so that isn't quite a good point there for it. (starforge in particular)

But I don't play either so I don't now more about it.

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livejamie wrote:

What a great conversation, thanks for the responses!

Does the conversation change if we are using either skill with a two-hander to get the full benefit from the Slayer ascendency?

I was thinking Skyforth Lacerate Slayer would be pretty spicy.

If I was going to do Dual-Wield wouldn't it be better to be Berserker or Gladiator or something else? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?

To be fair if you are using a two-hander I would just level both gems and see how it feels. AT the end of the day it will be a "feel" thing and not really a performance thing. You should get plenty of damage out of both. Lacerate will give you a slightly better AOE cone.

Will I be gimping myself by not dual-wielding?

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livejamie wrote:

Will I be gimping myself by not dual-wielding?

Dual wielding is incredibly sub optimal until GGG makes cleave not suck.