2 totally not-related questions

1) Viper Strike

I know that Double Dipping was removed, so that Increased Chaos Damage is now applied to the Attack Damage and the DoT Separately.

However, in different places and confusing contexts, I see this change (and what results from which part of the equations) being referred to as "Base Damage" and sometimes I see it as "Attack Damage".

So... if I use a flat damage increase (I.E. Added Chaos Damage Support), does that apply to the Base Damage (and is therefore both an increase to the hit, and to the value that functions as the base for the DoT), or just the "Attack" (and therefore only gets applied to the "instant" portion of the damage)?

P.S. I know the wiki says that ACD doesn't apply it's damage to Damage Over Time effects, but since Viper Strike's Damage Over Time is a function of the attack's Base Damage, that wording doesn't help much.


2) Brutaleed

More of a math question then the game-mechanics question above, but... if I was using a Bow+Brutality build with bleed, would I get more Mileage out of using:

-Puncture, and turning it AoE with GMP support, or
-Split Arrow, and giving it Bleed with the Bleed support?

Ailment damage
Ailments that deal damage over time (ignite, bleed, poison) deal damage based on the base damage of the hit, resulting in separate calculations for hit damage and ailment damage.

Ailment damage is a separate modifier from attack and spell damage. Damage modifiers that apply to attacks or spells do not apply to ailments even if it was applied from an attack or spell. However, general damage modifiers will apply to ailments if the damage modifier type matches it. For example, "+x% increased Physical Damage" will apply to bleed, but "+x% increased Attack Physical Damage" will not under any circumstances.

Ailments also have a separate critical strike multiplier from hits. The base multiplier to ailment damage from critical strikes is 150%, and increases to critical strike multiplier will not also increase the damage of ailments. Currently, the only way to increase the critical strike multiplier of ailments is the Perfect Agony keystone.

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ailment#Ailment_damage_with_melee_weapons

The chaos damage will not be added to damage that is not part of a "hit", such as damage over time effects. The chaos damage will however be added to the weapon hits from Puncture, Poison Arrow, Viper Strike, and any other skill that hits.

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Added_Chaos_Damage_Support

Haven't played a bow build in a while, so I have no clue on #2.

Yes, as I said I read the wiki. The exact wording of what you copied still doesn't answer the question though.

The removal of Double-Dipping was a change to how the Increased (and, if applicable, Decreased) modifiers got applied to the equation.

Now, rather than the Poison being calculated by the actual damage done when the enemy is struck, it is calculated by the damage of the attack before Inc and Dec modifiers.

But ACD isn't an Inc/Dec modifier. It adds to the damage of the "skill".

I know that the ACD gem does not add it's X-Y damage directly to the ailment, however, I still can't tell whether or not it's getting added to the "attack" or the "hit", the "skill" itself, or even which step of the calculation those words even refer to.


Basically, This:

Assume (based on my weapon damage) that Viper Strike does 100 damage, and I slot ACD on it that adds 10.

Does the target get:

hit for (100 + 10) * (summation of increased - decreased modifiers) * various More and Lesses
and
poisoned for (0.2 * (100 + 10)) * (summation of increased - decreased modifiers) * various More and Lesses

--OR--

hit for (100 + 10) * (summation of increased - decreased modifiers) * various More and Lesses
and
poisoned for (0.2 * (100)) * (summation of increased - decreased modifiers) * various More and Lesses



EDIT:

The wording of ACD's "The chaos damage will not be added to damage that is not part of a "hit", such as damage over time effects" just means to me that the calculation for poison is NOT

poisoned for ((0.2 * 100) + 10) * (summation of increased - decreased modifiers) * various More and Lesses

? :(

"

themousemaster wrote:

But ACD isn't an Inc/Dec modifier. It adds to the damage of the "skill".

I know that the ACD gem does not add it's X-Y damage directly to the ailment, however, I still can't tell whether or not it's getting added to the "attack" or the "hit", the "skill" itself, or even which step of the calculation those words even refer to.

ACD adds chaos damage to your attack/spell, as the name says.

If that attack applies a poison stack, the added chaos damage is calculated into the DoT as additional base damage.

So, it's this:

"

poisoned for (0.2 * (100 + 10)) * (summation of increased - decreased modifiers) * various More and Lesses

Many thanks. Is there a way I can give you a +1 or something?

Send him ten bucks.

:P

As for the Bleedbow thing? Probably Puncture. You'd have to do Path of Building or actual in-game experimentation to be certain, but for one, you can do gem-swapsies games with Puncture for big bosses, get it configured for single-target by switching GMP for Slower Proj or the like. For two, Puncture treats Bleed as a skill effect, so extra duration modifiers and such work on it (i.e. +Duration in the skilltree, compensating for all the -Duration modifiers on stuff like Swift Affliction). For three, Split Arrow is hilariously bad for single-target and Chance to Bleed support only offers a 25% chance to...y'know, actually bleed. You'd need more Bleed chance on the tree, or to be a Gladiator, to make that work.

I don't know if Bleedbow is a viable build plan for super-lategamey stuff, but if it works at all it'd probably work with Puncture. Or something else that deals much greater single-hit damage to scale the Bleeds off of. CtB Siege Ballista comes to mind, with Rain of Splinters for extra projectiles and that aforementioned tree bleeding. You could also potentially do Rain of Arrows for Bleeding; despite its fluff, RoA is a single-hit skill and deals slightly higher base damage than Puncture.

You lose the ability to scale Bleeds with skill effect duration modifiers with anything but Puncture, but those modifiers are a lot less important for Bleeding than they are for Poison. Even Crimson Dance Bleeding (god that keystone was such a disappointment...). RoA is an AoE skill from the start, so no fiddling with GMP. Might be worth looking into, mebbe.