PvP Popularity

That suggestion made me nostalgic to the days when low level map bosses could actually kill players. Now even the torture chamber boss is a wimp. There's just been too much streamlining in poe.

Pve really could use a good dosage of pvp shenanigans to make it more interesting again :)
GGG tasted the casual players money, there is not turning back from that.

Game is not hardcore anymore and never will be when you see that a few changes on charges made reddit loose his shit and forced GGG to do an apology thread.
to be fair, the changes were hilariously short-sighted... and the biggest problem with it all was how it showcased ggg's obvious lack of internal communication.

ie: how they had just showcased that new trapper chest days ago, and clearly the writer/writers had no idea that the frenzy charges were to be changed, making that mod +/- worthless to trappers.

and the same for a ton of other uniques and some gems (ie: power siphon).

the proposed changes appeared to be woefully ignorant.



that said, the main point still stands - this game has gotten only more and more casual (and with more and more power creep) since sacrifice of the vaal.

i'd honestly be happy with a ton of heavy nerfs and retroactive nerfs to a lot of items. and i'd be stoked if the pve game actually took advantage of the mechanics poe built, and forced players to use multiple layers of damage mitigation (ie: armor + evasion + dodge + block, regen/recharge), instead of rewarding glass cannons that kill everything immediately.
i got a one-week ban for saying "thanks, captain obvious."
9/28/18 - one day ban for quoting someone.
11/25/18 - "dat irony" got me a 3 day ban. <3 mods
1/7/19 - 1 week ban for ????? (unknown, no citation) viva la censorship!
Last edited by robmafia on Aug 3, 2017, 8:00:49 AM
I believe that the game should allow anyone to play and doesn't have to be "hardcore" everytime, the theory of difficulty is to slowly ramp up the problems the player face at the same time it's not too easy (Makes it boring) or too difficulty of a hurdle (It's not fun, Dark Souls was fun so it's was not that difficult maybe I did die a lot though), but with the introduction of Maps, which is unique to the game (I think), it has mods that modify how a player interacts in doing the maps, therefore it has the freedom to be as easy or as hard as it can be or even force the player to save that map for their other character that is specifically be able to do that map since they are built for it, but that's my concept of how they wanted it, I don't know really know what was in GGG's Mind when they implimented it, was it just for the sake of end game? I don't know, I can't judge since I've only done a few maps and never fully experienced up to T16 Maps

By my understand the game's character building is about the freedom to do be diverse without the anything forcing you to only follow te certain build because what would be the point of being diverse when only one thing works? But maps though, they have the freedom to restrain the player since the player can just switch to other maps if they look into those mods and realize (Oh, My build can't do this, ok other map then), but currently I can do any maps at low levels.

Soo yeah my suggestion is to apply PvE interaction to PvP interaction
What you're describing looks a lot like a variation on defence of the ancients (dota). Unless you meant that team 1 and team 2 never actually meet and fight each other, then it would just be competitive pve and you are in fact in the wrong forum ;)

Pve alongside pvp can be great and lots of people agree, just look at all the dota clones and their millions of players. Something like that as a sidegame in a somewhat balanced rpg would be great, but it would take a lot of design work to make the levels (much more work than adding a corridor to hall of grandmasters). And in poe it wouldn't be popular because both pve and pvp are just too unhinged for this kind of confronting competitive play, so for ggg it wouldn't be worth spending money on it. Unfortunately this is unlikely to change until someone at ggg has an epithany about implementing a long term balancing methodology.

And longterm balancing methodologies are dangerous for our game enjoyment since in most companies hands you'd end up with normalized numbers and lame items (tier 1 class set, tier 2 class set, ...), as opposed to the great unique item system of poe. You'd need a genius with a lot of clout to pull of somewhat balanced game design with out of whack items and total freedom of build choice. And I believe that the person who is responsible for the whack a mole balancing efforts of ggg is not the right person for that job.

So I find it better to accept that poe is unbalanced and that the only pvp specific development I can except are easy quick win changes that come 12 to 24 months too late :)
The issue is that you can play any build in PvP. In no decent PvP game would you be able to play such a wide array of characters. For example, in DotA, the amount of life and regen your character has is fixed within a preset range that makes any available form of assault useful. In PoE, there are characters that cannot harm me faster than I regenerate, from the start of the match.

The only solution would be to have a preset group of PvP characters available, and no other character.

PS: No matter how well PvP is balanced, PvP players will be playing the strong PvP builds, while PvE players will be playing sub-optimal builds.

PPS: At least, before T value was added, most builds could simply hope to kill before they got killed. Now, they can't even do that.
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RunawayFixer wrote:
What you're describing looks a lot like a variation on defence of the ancients (dota). Unless you meant that team 1 and team 2 never actually meet and fight each other, then it would just be competitive pve and you are in fact in the wrong forum ;)

Pve alongside pvp can be great and lots of people agree, just look at all the dota clones and their millions of players. Something like that as a sidegame in a somewhat balanced rpg would be great, but it would take a lot of design work to make the levels (much more work than adding a corridor to hall of grandmasters). And in poe it wouldn't be popular because both pve and pvp are just too unhinged for this kind of confronting competitive play, so for ggg it wouldn't be worth spending money on it. Unfortunately this is unlikely to change until someone at ggg has an epithany about implementing a long term balancing methodology.

And longterm balancing methodologies are dangerous for our game enjoyment since in most companies hands you'd end up with normalized numbers and lame items (tier 1 class set, tier 2 class set, ...), as opposed to the great unique item system of poe. You'd need a genius with a lot of clout to pull of somewhat balanced game design with out of whack items and total freedom of build choice. And I believe that the person who is responsible for the whack a mole balancing efforts of ggg is not the right person for that job.

So I find it better to accept that poe is unbalanced and that the only pvp specific development I can except are easy quick win changes that come 12 to 24 months too late :)


Hmm not really, I think it would be most likely be "Hero survival", where both teams defend against increasingly stronger mobs every wave, no they cannot interact with the other team and they can't also directly interact with the other team's mobs, please read original post, it's kinda long.
Last edited by Psichrone on Aug 4, 2017, 3:47:59 AM
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Psichrone wrote:
"
RunawayFixer wrote:
What you're describing looks a lot like a variation on defence of the ancients (dota). Unless you meant that team 1 and team 2 never actually meet and fight each other, then it would just be competitive pve and you are in fact in the wrong forum ;)

Pve alongside pvp can be great and lots of people agree, just look at all the dota clones and their millions of players. Something like that as a sidegame in a somewhat balanced rpg would be great, but it would take a lot of design work to make the levels (much more work than adding a corridor to hall of grandmasters). And in poe it wouldn't be popular because both pve and pvp are just too unhinged for this kind of confronting competitive play, so for ggg it wouldn't be worth spending money on it. Unfortunately this is unlikely to change until someone at ggg has an epithany about implementing a long term balancing methodology.

And longterm balancing methodologies are dangerous for our game enjoyment since in most companies hands you'd end up with normalized numbers and lame items (tier 1 class set, tier 2 class set, ...), as opposed to the great unique item system of poe. You'd need a genius with a lot of clout to pull of somewhat balanced game design with out of whack items and total freedom of build choice. And I believe that the person who is responsible for the whack a mole balancing efforts of ggg is not the right person for that job.

So I find it better to accept that poe is unbalanced and that the only pvp specific development I can except are easy quick win changes that come 12 to 24 months too late :)


Hmm not really, I think it would be most likely be "Hero survival", where both teams defend against increasingly stronger mobs every wave, no they cannot interact with the other team and they can't also directly interact with the other team's mobs, please read original post, it's kinda long.
I had read it, but it was somewhat ambiguous. Since you were posting in the pvp forums I had assumed your suggestion involved actual pvp. But if it's just team 1 fighting mobs and team 2 fighting mobs, without team 1 directly fighting team 2, then there is no actual pvp, only pve. Poe already has several forms of competitive pve, where single players or groups of players are competing against eachother while fighting the environment: racing, ladder climbing, the labyrinth, flipping, ... It's players competing against eachother without directly fighting eachother. So pve, not pvp.
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RunawayFixer wrote:
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Psichrone wrote:
"
RunawayFixer wrote:
What you're describing looks a lot like a variation on defence of the ancients (dota). Unless you meant that team 1 and team 2 never actually meet and fight each other, then it would just be competitive pve and you are in fact in the wrong forum ;)

Pve alongside pvp can be great and lots of people agree, just look at all the dota clones and their millions of players. Something like that as a sidegame in a somewhat balanced rpg would be great, but it would take a lot of design work to make the levels (much more work than adding a corridor to hall of grandmasters). And in poe it wouldn't be popular because both pve and pvp are just too unhinged for this kind of confronting competitive play, so for ggg it wouldn't be worth spending money on it. Unfortunately this is unlikely to change until someone at ggg has an epithany about implementing a long term balancing methodology.

And longterm balancing methodologies are dangerous for our game enjoyment since in most companies hands you'd end up with normalized numbers and lame items (tier 1 class set, tier 2 class set, ...), as opposed to the great unique item system of poe. You'd need a genius with a lot of clout to pull of somewhat balanced game design with out of whack items and total freedom of build choice. And I believe that the person who is responsible for the whack a mole balancing efforts of ggg is not the right person for that job.

So I find it better to accept that poe is unbalanced and that the only pvp specific development I can except are easy quick win changes that come 12 to 24 months too late :)


Hmm not really, I think it would be most likely be "Hero survival", where both teams defend against increasingly stronger mobs every wave, no they cannot interact with the other team and they can't also directly interact with the other team's mobs, please read original post, it's kinda long.
I had read it, but it was somewhat ambiguous. Since you were posting in the pvp forums I had assumed your suggestion involved actual pvp. But if it's just team 1 fighting mobs and team 2 fighting mobs, without team 1 directly fighting team 2, then there is no actual pvp, only pve. Poe already has several forms of competitive pve, where single players or groups of players are competing against eachother while fighting the environment: racing, ladder climbing, the labyrinth, flipping, ... It's players competing against eachother without directly fighting eachother. So pve, not pvp.


Well you are technically right, but are players be able to interact with the environment of the other team, hindering them or giving them problems for them have a higher chances of dying therefore for causing the other team to win when all of the other team's players are down? but even so this would probably hard to implement
Last edited by Psichrone on Aug 4, 2017, 10:05:52 AM
Like enfo's tower defense from warcraft 3.
"You have great power. You're right to be proud. It's unfortunate you have to die now, but I will honor you with 45% of my strength."

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