[Feedback]relation of raider/frenzy impact and move-speed meta/ traps and frenzy

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Boem wrote:

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GGG_Neon wrote:

Charges
We will re-evaluate the Power and Frenzy charges situation over the weekend. It would be very useful to hear your explanation of why certain builds or items have been damaged (or improved too much) by the change, with specifics and explanations. Many of the posts so far have just said "X is ruined". While the initial feedback has been somewhat helpful, proper discussion and analysis from the community will really help us fine-tune (or abandon) this change.

Some feedback that isn't just "X got rekt!"

I would like to give an alternate reason for why i think this change is bad in general apart from
"my deeeeps"

Utility

More importantly utility when discussing two-hand/staff casters. I know currently a niche i reckon in the top tier game-play, for obvious reasons(= move speed penalty in correlation to 1-hand move options)
As a result, raider that covers this weakness entirely was in my opinion the only option to allow
staff-casters to "somewhat" compete with normal casters in therms of movement.

Elemental route with phasing and spell dodge has good synergy with this type of game-play.

The frenzy route offered some benefits that these builds do well with

- attack speed allows better leap slam when needed
- move speed counters disadvantage of being restricted to leap slam and other "bad" movement skills
- cast speed per frenzy
- current damage multiplier on frenzy makes up for not going a strictly caster ascendancy

Now as a result of the above, raider is a worthwhile ascendancy in this situation, your in a pretty bad spot for casters in general but the combined benefits of these factors make it a relative good trade-off.

So while the damage gain per frenzy is relevant, it is only relevant in relation with the utility benefits it also provides making the whole package an efficient trade-off for not going a caster specific ascendancy.

Now with the damage multiplier being gone, the whole trade-off in my opinion is much less efficient and probably to be discarded as an option. Though there is no other ascendancy that can cover for the movement speed apart from pathfinder.

As a result, pathfinder is probably going to be the go to for these type of builds with the following restrictions.

- be a lightning staff caster
- have funds to buy potions

Potion efficiency with wise-oak/vinktars will probably make up for the frenzy dps lost and an adrenaline quicksilver is most likely faster then raider.

So an arche-type that could currently use raider and pathfinder get's restricted to pathfinder and to lightning only.(lack of fire/cold pen potions to scale)

That's odd in itself since that side of the tree is centered around cold damage mainly.(as it's main elemental attribute, i know projectile/elemental etc is also prevalent there)

Changing the topic,

Trappers/trap relation

Tinkerskin as a concept

- first off, the mods should be changed to proq on trap throw with heavily reduced value's, there is no logic behind disabling this trap chest to function with the main pull of saboteur(chain reaction)

Further more it would increase the interesting/unique part of this chest and people might go for more traps per throw if it's efficient for them.

- tinkerskin should get 2% move speed per frenzy charge if the current changes go true

(- ranger's master sapper should get it's trap damage% removed and get a 15% trap damage/3% trap throwing speed per frenzy charge modifier. In relation to tinkerskin relevant)

(- saboteur should get it's "change to trigger an additional time" on chain reaction removed and replaced with 2% more trap damage per frenzy, makes frenzy more relevant for him, though with master sapper and tinkerskin in the mix not the BiS option
In my opinion he should also get 15 mana gained per kill per power charge, to give a relation to those charges as-well)

Spoiler

investing in charges means not investing in other options, i reckon people need to keep this in mind. At best it's a two point investment which i don't consider cheap end-game wise for a conditional boost. Though usually the conditional disappears in these instances of investment.

With changes like this i see frenzy trappers still as a relevant option, via either one of the tree mentioned options.(which force frenzy's to take on trap oriented perks)

This got pretty long so ill keep it at that, hope this is somewhat relevant.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : as a somewhat snide remark on the first mentioned topic (frenzy/raider relation to staff-casters and movement problems), if movement in the current game state was not an issue, neither would be my concern.

But that's basically an overarching fuck up in the current game-state and the "meta" that is being pushed by design.
Resulting in requiring sufficient move speed/ability to even compete at a normal efficiency rate.