Why do people feel entitled to ascension?

Lab just feels too much like an obligation, and I think obligation is a better word than entitled or mandatory. Even if Izaro was easy as crap every lab generation it'd still feel like an obligation. But it's an obligation that gives a character changing reward absolutely appealing to the newest players looking for that much needed easy direction to take their character, but it is presented in a way only a smaller portion of players can really enjoy.

@OP,

I would argue it is a "special case" because ascendancy is too powerful to ignore, yet you have to complete content that is nearly 100% divorced from the rest of the content in the game to have it.

Example; shit 1ex gear can do most content in the game with a great build. 20ex of gear is probably like 20-30% better and can do all content 20-30% faster. Mirror gear on the same build is probably like 50% better and can do all content 50% faster, excluding a mirror weapon (just a wild approximation). Why is this ok? Because the avenue of getting mirror gear is killing monsters. You use your shit gear to kill monsters which makes you better at killing monsters. Further, not having mirror gear does not preclude you from doing all content (the game is not balanced around it).

Example 2; at level 80 you can do all content. At level 90 you can do all content like 5% faster. At level 100 you can probably do it 10% faster. Makes perfect sense for the same reasons - you absolutely, unequivocally don't "need" ten more levels at 90 to complete a build, and you get those levels by killing monsters. The reward isn't required and it matches the task, as well as the rest of the game.

Example 3; without lab you will greatly struggle to do all content, and your build is undeniably incomplete and lacking without it, even if the build itself is great. In order to get the points you have to go through a long, bullet hell dungeon with the only %HP damage in the game, the only traps in the game, the only forced HC in the game where you must do it in one shot, and a boss that punishes new players disproportionately because the mechanics are not obvious at all. And your reward is more monster killing power for the rest of the game (???). Fucking genius.

Because the game itself has been balanced around your build having those ascendancy points.

Lame duck builds can clear Tier 1 maps, without ascendancies. With 4 link items or less. Going through the Beta recently proved that readily enough.

And, as stated, as the Ascendancies are a core part of game design, the fact that they are gated behind something quite disparate from the rest of the game, and realistically the rest of the ARPG genre, is an........interesting design choice.

This comes from someone who has done all the labs, many times.

You can just pay for a carry, all traps are avoidable with lightning warp. Quit whining/sucking/etc. Its no different than buying gear, or maps, or all the other things people pay for because their builds cannot do them.

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tramshed wrote:

You can just pay for a carry, all traps are avoidable with lightning warp. Quit whining/sucking/etc. Its no different than buying gear, or maps, or all the other things people pay for because their builds cannot do them.

And how many players would quit a game before they did this? A good number.

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tramshed wrote:

You can just pay for a carry, all traps are avoidable with lightning warp. Quit whining/sucking/etc. Its no different than buying gear, or maps, or all the other things people pay for because their builds cannot do them.

Lol, why does everyone who likes lab think that people who hate lab only hate it because they can't do it or they suck? I have done uber literally hundreds of times on many builds and I would still never set foot in that place again if it wasn't such easy money + ascendancy. I don't like it =! I suck at it.

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Deadpeng wrote:

My answer to OP.

You merely just returned to the game. Play for another few months and you will start to agree with us.

Period.
All of us used to think like you when Ascendancy was first introduced then two/three months later we all realized the labyrinth is nonsense.

I highly doubt it my dear.

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Deadpeng wrote:

My answer to OP.

You merely just returned to the game. Play for another few months and you will start to agree with us.

Period.
All of us used to think like you when Ascendancy was first introduced then two/three months later we all realized the labyrinth is nonsense.

I highly doubt it my dear.

You all still seem to not get me. I dont at all imply if you dislike it itis due to it being too hard for your build. Nor am i only talking about the uber dif setting of it.

I also think its pretty clear even if the new high end content is being designed with the power in mind, that allows for at least normal and cruel likely even merc dif points to be aquired by an over lvl character with fair ease.

However the entire system reminds me of the Incarnate system City of Heroes had added as a way to push power above and beyond the lvl cap without adding more levels.

The incarnate system allowed its first teirs of power to be gained through a number of ways. But its higher tiers where locked behind raids. Prior to this raiding was something only a very small minority took part in, and many casuals hated being forced into raiding as did the more solo focused players.

Ironically at the same time meta gaming power players hated how the lower tiers easily accessible to those casuals, upped the power of the less well built and played characters so greatly it was felt it allowed them to trivialize content they had no business even being in.

Considering how potent I feel on my main after thus the normal dif ascension power added to him I kind of feel like that is exactly the case here. there is so much power in even the easy to get points that I went from struggling with the big spider in the teir one forest map to destroying her with ease with those few points added.

And perhaps if I played many toons I might come to loathe it, but I dont. I have one serious high lvl guy, and a handful of lowbie alts. one of whom may eventually get to higher levels only because he is a partner in a static duo with an rl friend I recently brought to the game.