Calculating additive bonuses?

Sorry if this is obvious to everyone but me, but....
Do additive bonuses ("increased") that do the same type of damage get added with each other?

In other words, if I have a total of +50% fire damage from all sources, a total of +50% spell damage from all sources, and a total of +50% area damage from all sources, then I have a total of +150% increased damage to my firestorm. (Right?) It's then my base fireball damage times 1 + 1.5? So if I get increased damage (from jewels, say), that just adds in -- so if I get +50% increased damage, it would be 1 + 2? So that this means that any additional "increased damage" that is relevant to my skill, no matter what the type or source, would be subject to the same kind of diminishing returns? If I already have + 500% "increased" fire damage that is relevant to my build, then getting +10% "increased" damage of any other type would only add a small bonus to my already considerable "increaed" amount -- right?
Or.... are the individual "increased" bits multiplicative with one another? So that having 500% "increaed" fire damage means getting additional "increased" fire would suffer from great diminishing returns, but getting even +10% increased, say, area damage would yield a much larger bonus?

"

Abdiel_Kavash wrote:

"

onomastikon wrote:

Sorry if this is obvious to everyone but me, but....
Do additive bonuses ("increased") that do the same type of damage get added with each other?

Yes, that's what "additive" means.

"increased" and "reduced" modifiers are additive.
"more" and "less" modifiers are multiplicative.

Thank you.
I'm sorry, I had thought that each "type" was then added together, and then these types were then calculated separately, so that if I had +50% area damage and +10% fire damage, for example, gaining +10% additional fire damage would give me more benefit (for a fire skill, obviously) than +10% area damage. But I was mistaken, right?

Sorry, I really need to understand this. Maybe this helps someone else too.

Just to make sure then: No matter where the "increased" damage comes from (jewels, tree, equipment, gems) and to what it applies (e.g. for Righteous Fire: fire, area, burning, "damage", damage over time, elemental) -- these are all added together and modify my base damage.
So if I have, e.g., + 72% area damage (tree + jewels), + 840% damage (my Doon bonus + 1 jewel), + 10% damage over time (jewel), +35% increased damage vs. burning enemies (Ascendancy perk), + 63% increased burning damage (IBD gem) + 70% fire damage (tree), + 32% elemental damage (item), then I would have a total of + 1122% increased damage which would modify my base damage of Righteous Fire? (Or does the IBD gem get calculated differently?)

If that is correct, then losing, say, one of my jewels giving + 10% increased damage over time would then make my total 1112 -- is that right? (I had previously thought that because this was my only bonus to damage over time, it was a Big Deal, because calculated differently....) If that is correct, then losing this bonus would be equivalent to losing about 0.8% of my increased damage -- right? (In other words, fairly insignificant and not a Big Deal, like I had thought.)

If I am right now in the last two paragraphs (please correct me!!), then I have been making BIG MISTAKES since ... ever. If I am right, then my bonus from Doon really makes almost all other bonuses (but not the MORE bonuses from Elemental Focus et al.) pretty small, and I should be spending a lot more effort on increasing my life (which would increase my base damage anyway if my main damage is done through RF).

Can someone please tell me (and anyone else who is reading this) if I am on the right track now or am still in need of correction?

THANK YOU

"

Vipermagi wrote:

"I would have a total of + 1122% increased damage which would modify my base damage of Righteous Fire?"
Assuming they're all Increased, yes. This is why the Increased Burning Damage Support is rather underwhelming for a lategame Righteous Fire build, sadly.

"If that is correct, then losing, say, one of my jewels giving + 10% increased damage over time would then make my total 1112 -- is that right?"
Correct. Really insignificant all in all.

Yes, I am pretty sure they are all increased. You can see my character (Ghan_burighan) to check, but I am pretty sure none of those are "more" modifiers. (Could you pretty please check?)
I am in your debt.
I feel a bit like a fool.
So that also means that using a Sulpher Flask is also equally underwhelming, right? Not giving me a nice 40% bonus, but more like a (1122 + 40 = 1162) / 1122 = 3.5% bonus. (which of course gets mulitiplied by my MORE bonuses ...)

I cannot think of something better than Increased Burning Damage -- controlled destruction does not work, isn't that right? (And anyway, would really need a R gem...)

EDIT: Damn it, now I am confused again. People have said in many places that the bonus from Doon Cuebiyari is less effective than the bonus from Doryani when strength is not yet >700. I no longer understand that. Even with 600 strength, DC would yield 600% increased damage, while Doryani only yields about 130% (plus bonuses that do not apply to RF). What am I missing here? This is one of the key points that confused me in the first place

"

Vipermagi wrote:

Doon Cuebiyari grants 1% Increased Damage per 8 Strength, not per 1 Strength.

Doon and Doryani's both have the same implicit modifier of 32% Inc Elemental Damage.
Doryani's grants 80-100% Increased Damage from explicit modifiers. For Doon to surpass a maximum roll, you need 808 Strength: that would grant 101% Increased Damage.

This also explains how you got to such a massive Increased Damage multiplier. Didn't really look too closely first time round, probably should've caught onto that one sooner.. My bad.

-----
Controlled Destruction does not work, no. I personally just run Conc as a mainstay. With the new +Radius that Righteous Fire gets from Gem levels, it's no big deal imo. That's up to personal preference though :)

Oh man. Thank you. Priceless.
No, my fault.

So my mistake with Doon makes the calculation somewhat less ridiculous, instead it would be:
+ 72% area damage (tree + jewels), + 112% damage (my Doon bonus + 1 jewel), + 10% damage over time (jewel), +35% increased damage vs. burning enemies (Ascendancy perk), + 63% increased burning damage (IBD gem) + 70% fire damage (tree), + 32% elemental damage (item), then I would have a total of + 394%
Could I be missing any other "increased" sources?
So that means losing a 10% area damage or whatnot jewel / node would decrease my increased damage bonus to 384, or about 2.5%.

If for the same amount of points I could gain a 5% increase life, that might end up being more net damage (not to mention a quantum of survivability).

I don't find it easy to calculate my base life, but poeplanner says I have 217% increased life, and wearing all my gear (which gives flat bonuses, not increased %) gives me about 9k life. So I am guessing that I have about 4150 base life. If that's true, then going from +217% to + 222% would give me 9.213k. (Seems like a big jump, I would have thought somewhere between 125 and 175 would be right?) If that's the case, then I would go from doing 4500 + 75 base damage (where 75 is 50% of about 150, I think I may have that much ES) to doing 4600 + 75 base damage, or about 2.1% more. Does the ratio stay the same after applying my additive and multiplicative boni? (I am thinking: no, it doesn't.) If it does, I lose some bit of damage this way. But if not (then comes my MORE bonuses), then I may end up getting slightly more -- right?

So ditching IBD would drop my increases from 394% to 330%, or about 16%.
Conc would outshine that (assuming the loss in area would be made up by getting to new monsters faster because of them dying faster), but would mean 4B. You wear hybrid gear or just spend a few thousand chromes?

THANK YOU VERY MUCH

"

Vipermagi wrote:

I play ES RF, so I cheat on socket colouring :P Suppose that's a fair consideration to make, but four blue on a Str/Int helm ain't that hard.

-------
217% Increased Life means 9000 equals 317% total Life.
9000 / 317 * 100 = 2840 base Life

Base Life is pretty easy to figure out by looking at your stats and gear too:
12 * level + 50
+ Life from gear
+ Strength/2
= base Life
Level 90, 974 Life from gear, some 800 Strength, also ends up at 2800-something.

With the lower base Life, 5% Increased Life becomes slightly weaker than 10% Inc Damage for purely offensive purposes. 's Why Jewels with both Life and Damage can be so dang expensive :P You really want both, if possible.

Thank you very much. Do I have this correct when comparing the usage of these two items? One would give me more strength (and thus increased damage through the Doon bonus; it has less life, so the bonus to life from the strength with this item gives practically no net life bonus), but has no ES, while the other item has less strength and thus less increased damage bonus but ES, which raises my base damage because of the way that RF scales its damage from 50% of combined life and ES.
In the first case, I would have a total of 354 increased damage (does Doon’s bonus round up or down?), with a base of 5020 burning dps. This would yield a total of 22790 dps (5020 + 4.54); with my bonuses from Conc Eff and Ele Focus (103 more), this would yield a total of 46265 total dps. Right?
In the second case, I gain about 50 strength, but lose some ES, giving me a total of 358 increased (359 if Doon rounds up) and 4992 base for a total of 22664, yielding 46007 with my “more” bonuses. The significant strength bonus actually seems to yield me less, if RF is my main damage source (which it is). Not a lot less (about 0.5% less), but all things being equal: the ES actually brings me more. Am I calculating correctly?
THANK YOU!