The Scion is in a terrible shape. She needs her Ascendancy system overhauled.

Let me start by saying I love the concept of the Scion. I've always liked versatile, flexible characters that can pull off anything and I understand this is also a reason to intentionally make them weaker or they will shadow others.

But in Path of Exile, a game where specialization is key, having a character's Ascendancy be a diluted, reduced to 35% effectiviness COPY of the other classes Ascendancies is just a terrible desing idea. There is no reason at all to currently Play Scion for anything she does (travelling across the tree, being a generalist, etc) is just done exponentially better by anyone else. The execution for her was terrible. It's a classic feast or famine desing: Either be so good you stomp the competition or be so miserable you sit in a corner useless for all eternity with the excuse a generalist can't be the best.

She needs help. It's not possible a character with such a fun concept, voice over, background and sheer potential is reduced to her current form.

What would fix her?

She's bad because her Ascendancy provides nothing. It's even a detriment because It gives a very false feeling of power that is not there. That "copypaste" system needs major improvements. She has to be a true generalist that progresively specializes into something, not a cheap Ditto.

1. Replacing her current ascendancy "roulette" by a pyramidal system

Her Ascendancy should start from the most general aproach (Base of the Pyramid) and then move on into further specialization (Apex).

The pyramid would be composed by 4 floors, each one unlocked by spending 2 Ascendancy points on it.

For example, the pyramid, would be(I'm sorry for the bad quality, I have no idea of how to use photoshop or any other fancy art programs >.<, but bear with me):



(Remember numbers are placeholders. They would need to be tweaked by a balance team)

Tier 1: Base
Start as general as possible.
Ex:

DEXTEROUS:
+75 Dexterity
+250 Accuracy Rating
+250 Evasion Rating
10% Increased Attack Speed
5% Increased Move speed

SAVANT:
+75 Intelligence
+125 Energy Shield
50% Increased mana regeneration rate
25% Increased maximum mana
5% Increased energy shield recharge rate

BRUISER:
+75 Strength
+250 Armor
35% Increased melee damage
15% Increased Maximum Life
5% Reduced physical damage taken


Tier 2: Class specialization
This would start to define a specific playstyle based on the intended proficiencies of each class. For example, The Shadow is proficient at Critical Strike, Melee, Chaos and Elemental damage; The Duelist is Proficient at Block, Life Leech, Attack damage. You get the idea.

Ex:
PATH OF THE SORCERER
25% Increased Minion damage and Life
25% Increased spell damage
20% Increased maximum Energy Shield
10% Increased cast speed
5% Increased spell block chance

PATH OF THE SKIRMISHER:
50% Increased Evasion and Armor
25% Increased Attack Damage
5% Increased Block chance
1% of Attack damage Leeched as Life
0.5% of Attack damage Leeched as Mana

Tier 3:
Would be the bonuses she gains from the current Ascendancy tree, based on the "Path" she picked on T2
Ex: Picking the Path of the Skirmisher would let her choose between the 3 Duelist Ascendancies.

Tier 4:
Would allow to round up the build with a final touch: You're able to allocate a single major passive inside the Ascendancy of the class you selected, at It's full power.
Ex: She picked the Path of the Skirmisher on T2, Then picked the Slayer on T3, She can now pick a single major passive INSIDE the original Slayer Ascendant tree.


Closing this post: I think I will also post this on reddit. We need to rise the awaraness that the Scion is in terrible shape, and ask GGG to help her. I genuinely think the Scion should be the *ideal* starter class, not the "advanced" class. She should be able to do anything, to guide the player on the march, and be good at doing that.

Let's ask some love for our Scion
EDIT: Reddit thread https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/65hwhe/the_scion_is_in_a_terrible_shape_her_ascendancy/

I like it! And while we're at it, for the love of god, give us a better portrait.

Ascendant looks like a dressed up Jennifer Anniston right out of a RomCom. :(

The balance values notwithstanding, I actually think this is a great concept. The whole pyramid idea even gives credence to the name 'Ascendant'. It'd enable some crazy Frankenstein builds.

Thread is kind of dead here, got a lot more attention on reddit.

I'll bump it a single time and let it sink then

It's sad how Scion has basically been left in the dirt for so long, even simple changes like allowing her to pick another major node would have helped a lot to even the playing field. With uber labyrinth, all classes got access to another big ascendancy node, while Scion is left with one skill point and 20/40 to some base state, it's pathetic.

But well, this has been brought up over and over for a long time already.

I've thought about this and while your solution is interesting, I think I may have a better idea. I'm not going to hijack your thread by saying it here, but I will create my own thread.

But would that not remove all incentive to take 2 different path to have a niche / unusual build ?
I mean, with that new pyramidal system, it would just be plain bad to just take something else than the strong passive at the end of the pyramid, or ?
Plus that would make Uber lab feel mandatory for the Scion, which it isn't at the moment.

Having the top of that pyramid at 6 points would makea bit more sense, but need the 4 points keystones to be attractive so that the 4 / 4 option still remains somewhat of an acceptable ( or viable ) option, imho.

Just my 2 cents.

I think when it comes to revamping the Scion's ascendency one of the first things that needs to be done is figure out exactly what her identity is supposed to be and how that will fit into the game as a whole.

THEN look to adjust or remake the tree around that.

For example:

If she's simply supposed to be a lite version of other classes, then the current tree can work, it'll just need better bonuses from the class options. Maybe getting 1 additional Ascendency point per Lab would also help.

If she's supposed to be someone who has flexibilty when choosing how to specialize, then something like OP's idea would work. Letting you pick a specialization from a number of options. Would work best if she used her own unique versions of a classes theme rather than relying on copying them (I.e. Instead of Deadeye being about piercing/number of projectiles instead give some unique effects. Like maybe a sort of Slivertongue style boost to all projectile effects)

If she's supposed to be a generalist or the de-facto multi-classer, then give her assistance with multi-classing. Stuff like, having the other classes starting locations come earlier. Or Iron Grip style stat substitution, for example, "Strength now counts as Intellect for Items and Skills" (Efficiency can be lowered if necessary) would let someone make a caster while focusing more on the bottom/left part of the tree.

It could also then increase the versatility of some builds (For example, getting Dex to use evasion items via a different stat, then using Iron Reflexes to minimize the drawback. Or maybe you wanted to do an ES build and swing around a big old hammer and make some earthquakes now you can concentrate fully on the top of the tree with the ES nodes without being gimped out of your equipment/skills)

"

Fruz wrote:

But would that not remove all incentive to take 2 different path to have a niche / unusual build ?
I mean, with that new pyramidal system, it would just be plain bad to just take something else than the strong passive at the end of the pyramid, or ?
Plus that would make Uber lab feel mandatory for the Scion, which it isn't at the moment.

Having the top of that pyramid at 6 points would makea bit more sense, but need the 4 points keystones to be attractive so that the 4 / 4 option still remains somewhat of an acceptable ( or viable ) option, imho.

Just my 2 cents.

Agreed... it would also be very odd.

Imagine you take Berserker. You get 10% more damage from the Berserker Scion node and because you pick the 40% node you get another 40%? That isn't too powerful but feels very odd.

In most terms this would turn the scion into a weaker version of the class. Because you get a small bit of everything + a single node. Take Slayer as one example. I get Cull, 30% damage against rares and uniques, Overkill Leech and Stun on Full HP targets. And one Slayer node, when I pick Slayer I can get all that as well.

The thing is they have to find a right balance between her nodes and the classes. Right now they are too conditional most of the time and provide too little permanent power. I do like the Ability to pick one node from another Ascendancy. But how about usng her 8 points different.

You take the current 3 and with 6 points you can get 2 classes unlocked. If you invest 2 more points you unlock that classes starting position and can upgrade one of your effects to the one the class has. For the Slayer this means you can do the following:

Culling Strike -> Bane of Legends

30% increased Damage against Rares and bosses gets removed

10% of Overkill Damage Leeched as Life -> Endless Hunger

Your Damaging Hits always stun enemies at full Life -> Overwhelm

for the removed one
25% reduced reflected physical damage taken -> Headsman

This would mean two things:

a) The 8 points the scion has would be useful, she basically got no real upgrade with her 2 new points which put her way behind all the other ascendancies which could unlock one more node, now she can also do that, although she only upgrades one. Technically you could also just unlock one major node, although this would have some odd things which could make her very strong in some situations, like Deadeye getting 2 projectiles and 50% AoE. Another option would be to instead pick one of 3 upgrades to your chosen ascendany not necessarily linked to the ascendancy you have chosen. So instead of picking one slayer node you could just choose between a combination of Headsman and Bane of Legends (maybe getting 20% more damage if you have killed recently and 20% Cull) etc.

b) You would have even more options to make your scion individual because not only can you choose 2 out of 18 ascendancy effects, you can also basically upgrade one of the two chosen ones, which could in some cases make scion very specific and might even open up very specific builds. You could technically make a raider that gets Phasing and Onslaught on full Frenzy charges or a double Chaos-Pen occultist.

actually all she needs is to have that stupid 1st passive node removed.

Normal lab - stat points + your choice of class bonus
Cruel lab - get the start at node or get 2nd class bonus
Merci lab - get 3rd class bonus or take start at node for 2nd class
uber lab - possibly 4th class bonus, or take start node for 3rd class

Now I hear you but that would be too OP she would have access to 4 weaker class combinations. Yes she would. But really how useful is giving the access to 2 more classes watered down abilities really be / play out. It could be useful in some rare build cases, but overall i'm not going to get a huge gain out of it if i spent point in all 4, I would be better off taking the starting point most likely.

Oh the 2nd passive point would stay fyi.

So i could pick 3 of the ascendant classes and 1 starting point if i did uber lab. That would allow her to be a really strong class type. But still not too OP compared to none scion.

Some rework of the acendant sub classes might be needed to help balance the option to taking 4 of them, but it would feel more of who she is. A mutated hybrid science experiment.