Encourage Hybrid defense builds

New passive keystone: Liquid Metal
Adds 50% of your evasion rating to armor and 50% of your armor rating to evasion, if the values of your armor rating and evasion are within 50% of each other.
50% less block and dodge chance.

New passive keystone: Spectral Armor
1% increased armor rating per 10 current energy shield if your unbuffed armor rating is higher than your energy shield.
50% increased energy shield recharge delay.

New passive keystone: Energic Recoil
1% dodge chance per 500 evasion rating if your max. energy shield is greater than 20% of your evasion rating.
25% decreased energy shield recharge rate.

Any other ideas to encourage hybrid defense builds? Do they even need encouragement?

[Edit] Something went wrong when editing the above post, sorry...

Could start by unnerfing Acrobatics.

Acrobatics doesn't help armor / energy shield hybrid, though.

The downside on the liquid armour is too huge especially if you think that block and in a lesser extend dodge are supplementary defenses for ar/ev builds. Also the coding needed for this i think is a nightmare, would that 50% addition would be amplified by each other modifier? If yes then its broken as fuck too.

So 10k ES gives you 1000% increased armour? This is beyond broken, you just made CI build even better. The downside is laughable

Energic Recoil is the only one that seems ok with the first glance, only to realize its very counterproductive in some cases and in others it will just be a free 20-60% dodge chance for CI characters running around with supports.



What hybrid builds need are things like dual flat rolls for their item bases balanced accordingly. So a hybrid ar/es chest currently can only roll flat es and flat ar as different affixes, what im suggesting is that new rolls are created that give flat ES AND AR in the same affix. The same for ar/ev and ev/es.

Also some remaking of some Keystones. Like Zealots Oath applies to BOTH life and energy shield. Or half to the one and half the other. Create a new one that Makes leech apply to both life and es. Make a new cluster that is somewhat ineffective but the keystone reads : chaos dmg cannot bypass es. Move Vaal Pact in the old position. Make a new one that rewards players for using 2 or even three "defences" like : 1% physical damage mitigation if your Armour and Evasion values dont differ for more than 10% for every 2k of each or something.

Create new affixes for pots or new unique pots that have mods specifically for es/life recovery when their value are similar or close to 10% of each other.

Add some utility effects on hybrid nodes (ar/ev, ar/es, ev/es) like 5% chance to resist stun, 3% movement speed, 5% to resist status ailments (see cloth and chain notable its extremely efficient especially if you are on the path for example)

"

Regulator wrote:

The downside on the liquid armour is too huge especially if you think that block and in a lesser extend dodge are supplementary defenses for ar/ev builds. Also the coding needed for this i think is a nightmare, would that 50% addition would be amplified by each other modifier? If yes then its broken as fuck too.

No, the bonus for each would of course be calculated from the unbuffed value of the other. And yeah, maybe the downside is too harsh, but on the other hand, it shouldn't become a mandatory node for all armor/ev hybrids.

"

Regulator wrote:

So 10k ES gives you 1000% increased armour? This is beyond broken, you just made CI build even better. The downside is laughable

You have a point there, it also needs a condition that makes sure you are an armor/es hybrid. Maybe your AR has to be higher than your ES before the bonus? The 1% per 10 isn't that high if we take current armor/es gear into account, because it has pretty low ES values. If 25% inc recharge delay is laughable, it can be scaled up of course.

"

Regulator wrote:

Energic Recoil is the only one that seems ok with the first glance, only to realize its very counterproductive in some cases and in others it will just be a free 20-60% dodge chance for CI characters running around with supports.

In which cases would it be counterproductive? And I don't think a high ES character could profit much from 1% dodge chance per 500 eva. At best, they could get maybe 4-5% dodge chance without taking eva nodes, and if you place the node correctly in the tree (a couple of points away from Vaal Pact and Ghost Reaver), that wouldn't be attractive for those characters.

"

Regulator wrote:

What hybrid builds need are things like dual flat rolls for their item bases balanced accordingly. So a hybrid ar/es chest currently can only roll flat es and flat ar as different affixes, what im suggesting is that new rolls are created that give flat ES AND AR in the same affix. The same for ar/ev and ev/es.

Also some remaking of some Keystones. Like Zealots Oath applies to BOTH life and energy shield. Or half to the one and half the other. Create a new one that Makes leech apply to both life and es. Make a new cluster that is somewhat ineffective but the keystone reads : chaos dmg cannot bypass es. Move Vaal Pact in the old position. Make a new one that rewards players for using 2 or even three "defences" like : 1% physical damage mitigation if your Armour and Evasion values dont differ for more than 10% for every 2k of each or something.

Create new affixes for pots or new unique pots that have mods specifically for es/life recovery when their value are similar or close to 10% of each other.

Add some utility effects on hybrid nodes (ar/ev, ar/es, ev/es) like 5% chance to resist stun, 3% movement speed, 5% to resist status ailments (see cloth and chain notable its extremely efficient especially if you are on the path for example)

Good points, thank you.

"

zagibu wrote:

"

Regulator wrote:

Energic Recoil is the only one that seems ok with the first glance, only to realize its very counterproductive in some cases and in others it will just be a free 20-60% dodge chance for CI characters running around with supports.

In which cases would it be counterproductive? And I don't think a high ES character could profit much from 1% dodge chance per 500 eva. At best, they could get maybe 4-5% dodge chance without taking eva nodes, and if you place the node correctly in the tree (a couple of points away from Vaal Pact and Ghost Reaver), that wouldn't be attractive for those characters.

Maybe i didnt use the right word, maybe its counterintuitive? Im not even sure if that too is the right word to describe it, it just feels weird, though a nice thought. Its just that you want to raise both EV and ES but then the keystone only takes your EV for calculating the bonus while es plays only the requirement role.

As for the 4-5% dodge, you are missing a very common playstyle these days called support characters, people who run auras and go full aura effect and grant humongous bonuses to their party members. Those support run Grace which with aura effect nodes and other shenanigans (generosity, buff effect etc) give like 15k ev to everyone in their party. A person with 10 ES and 15k ev from its support has 30% free dodge, without a single point of investment in it.

Even without supports if said CI character (who could as well be pathfinder or simply take the alchemist node near witch which is commonly picked by ci users) rolled a jade flask with 80+% increased evasion during flask effect mod together with a stibnite flask (or its very popular even amongst CI character unique variants Sin's Rebirth and Witchfire Brew) you get a CI character with a 12k evasion during 6-7seconds gaining another 22% free dodge, in case its a pathinder that can be more than 20k ev and more than 40% free dodge. And since its a EV/ES node, it MUST be near shadow area so the problem cant be solved by putting it near marauder cause that will make no sense then :(.

While made with good intentions to help hybrid gearing and viability it is too easily broken to see real use or at least the intended one


EDIT : to better understand how strong that is, 22% dodge is similar to the old (2.5) block value of the unique flask rumi's concoction, and the 40% which can be attained by pathfinder is similar to the older version (1.3) which has been nerfed TWICE, or imagine if acrobatics didnt have the downside it does.

Hmm, yeah, I can see that problem. Seems it's not as simple as I thought to buff real hybrids without also benefiting non-hybrid characters.

"

zagibu wrote:

New passive keystone: Liquid Metal
Adds 50% of your evasion rating to armor and 50% of your armor rating to evasion, if the values of your armor rating and evasion are within 50% of each other.
50% less block and dodge chance.

New passive keystone: Spectral Armor
1% increased armor rating per 10 current energy shield if your unbuffed armor rating is higher than your energy shield.
50% increased energy shield recharge delay.

New passive keystone: Energic Recoil
1% dodge chance per 500 evasion rating if your max. energy shield is greater than 20% of your evasion rating.
25% decreased energy shield recharge rate.

Any other ideas to encourage hybrid defense builds? Do they even need encouragement?

To encourage hybrid defence builds, you should first make those defences viable on their own.
ES is viable.
But armour and evasion? Not so much! Many life builds chose to use neither evasion nor armour, simply because they're too weak and dont protect against real dangers in PoE.
So, first think a bit about making armour viable on its own, and evasion viable on its own (and i mean viable as defence layer, not as base number to boost your movement speed with QotF, or your ES gained per block with AA).